Hey @Alexey does Storj pay you in tokens as well? Would you accept payment of your salary in Storj on L2 to save the company money?
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This is a minimum, not a recommendation. A long time ago they already said the preferred amount of storage would be between 8TB and 24TB. Which I would say aligns perfectly with what works well on the current network.
That said, the wording is awkward⌠what does âminimum recommendedâ mean? Is it a minimum or a recommendation? From context I would say that should be considered the minimum and the âpreferredâ should be considered the recommendation.
You also canât have âpreferred requirementsâ, itâs either a requirement or it is not. So yeah, very weird wording, but I think the intention is clear.
BTW, I have a 24TB node for 1 year to date - it is only filled less than 4TB.
So it doesnât really works.
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And I agree, if storj has an issue with payout fees they should at least offer SNO when to hit payout button and be ready to pay fees.
And at most - they should payout in USD if they state they pay 20$ per TB.
They can even pay via USDT through BSC sich offers almost zero fees.
There are options if you reapply want to solve the issue.
But do they want to solve that issue? I donât know.
So, shouldnât there be a warning from the Storj side to say If you have only a small amount of storage on line you are unlikely to make any money ânet of feesâ If you wish to make a net amount consider having more than 2TB online?
A 500GB node surely works if you just want to add something you have as an extra. But as a standalone node it would be largely pointless with current fees.
My employer did - itâs called taxes. Especially until a few years ago. Anyway, using tokens seems to be inefficient for low value transactions
I will continue to use L1 though, even if it means I will get paid once every few months, for these reasons:
- I donât rush to exchange STORJ to ETH every month, I wait for good exchange rate, so it does not really matter to me how often I get paid.
- zkSync seems like a lot of hassle
- I would still need to transfer the tokens to L1 to use them
- Itâs interesting that Storj pushes zkSync, but currently you cannot use the L2 tokens for anything - including giving them back to Storj for the DCS service
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That would be my concern with a large node in the current situation. You are going to consume a lot of the drive life before you even get half full.
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People also feel upset about the goal posts continually changing. Particularly because Storj is not a cryptocurrency project -they just happen to use a token for payment.
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I have the feeling Storj Management is in their own little bubble. Since posting the update on the 9th there hasnât been a single response from either @jtolio or @Knowledge. Thank you very much @Alexey for remaining involved!
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Well JT is a CTO, so Iâm sure his agenda is quite busy. But based on past experience I know they definitely read our feedback. So these conversations are good to have.
I still see quite a few people wanting a feature to get payouts on request and pay the transaction fee. I already insinuated here that you can basically do this by using the zkSync option. But I kind of left this part hanging.
So, lets do some math to quantify this.
I previously did some research here to see how much more expensive a zkSync withdrawal would be. Turns out there are 2 scenarios, if you were planning to only move part of your balance, zkSync withdrawal costs only 2-3% more. If you plan to move your entire balance, that transaction would be cheaper on L1 and so zkSync would cost about 44% more. For mathematical convenience sake Iâll round that down to 40% more. Youâll see why later. But keep in mind that itâs slightly more.
In most cases, you wouldnât want to hit the payout if the transaction fee would be more than 25% of the payout. I know I would definitely wait until that percentage is much lower. So lets say an ERC20 transaction on L1 costs $10. With payout on demand you would wait until you have at least $40 before requesting payout. And at that point you receive the remaining $30.
Now lets look at this scenario with zkSync. Weâre going to assume you want to transfer your entire balance, because with how small the difference is if you want to transfer part of your balance there isnât even a question of what is the better option. So, you will have to pay 40% more and the withdrawal cost would be $14. But, instead of making $40 you would have gotten a 10% bonus and actually have $44. Subtract the $14 transaction costs and you end up with the same $30 you would have if you had the option to payout on demand while paying transaction fees.
Of course if you wait longer, say until you have $100, youâd actually end up getting paid more altogether. In fact if you wait until youâve earned $140, the bonus would cover the entire transaction fee and it would be like L1 payouts now, where you donât have to pay for transactions at all. Anything beyond that and you just get paid more even after subtracting transaction costs. I donât think Iâve ever moved less than $500 worth of tokens, so in my case itâs just pure profit.
So I still argue that a better version of payout on demand while paying fees already exists. And itâs called zkSync.
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I realy like the changes.
Also, argent is currently rolling out beta access to there L2 wallet with zkSync. With trading (via paraswap same partner numio will use) and FIAT onramp. So if we get enough demand and liqidity for STORJ pairs to be added, there is no need to withdrawl ERC20.
https://twitter.com/argentHQ/status/1445746935697006594
As well as some information by numio from another post:
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Long weekend in the United States here as we had a holiday on Monday.
Alexey is one person. He doesnât share his account.
We have no plans to switch payouts to another blockchain or FIAT. It isnât discussed. We are sticking with the Storj token.
The payout issue is high gas fees. We are all at the mercy of the Ethereum networkâs shortcomings right now. Hopefully they will get ironed out as changes are made. Otherwise, it really just comes down to having to wait longer to get paid, or getting paid more frequently with Zksync, and you deciding if you want to hold on the L2, or pay the fees yourself to transition them to L1.
I canât do anything about there not being L2 exchanges for you to send your money to automatically to make it easier. But we can look into putting together documentation for Zksync as that seems like something we should have.
Modifying payouts in any fashion are going to result in some people being happy and some being upset. Weâre trying to be flexible and listen to your concerns about the payout process. We are dealing with an unfortunate fee problem that is outside our control. Weâre trying to leverage Zksync to reduce fees paid, and to allow payouts to be more frequent. I do understand the concerns with Zksync for new and smaller node operators, as well as the high barrier to get first payout. I will take it back to the team to discuss.
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I donât get this at all. We have the situation were most SNOâs make a couple of bucks a month. How does dividing up those few dollars into even smaller chunks help? Sure, the whales will love it but I highly doubt the smaller SNOâs think dividing up $5 a month into smaller chunks is the most important issue on their list.
The problem is that it isnât money. It is a token stuck in a isolated wallet on what will become L2 for most SNOâs it seems. It literally has no net value whatsoever because nothing can be done with it. The fees to do anything would wipe it out. Iâll use BrightSilenceâs own example to illustrate. I was paid at the end of last month $20 worth of Storj for 8 months. Since I can do nothing with the tokenâs on L2 I look at a transfer to L1. One time fee is currently $4.05 and the Gas fee is $15.49. Thatâs the fees right now. So I literally would have $1.00 left. After 8 months.
Does that seem in any way viable? so that means I need to wait several more months to see if anything becomes viable. I think it is a big ask from Storj to expect SNOâs to wait more than a year for any net paymentâŚ
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I wonder why storj team is pushing zksync into community?
If you are saying, for example, SNO will get $20 per TB, why donât you use USDT via binance smart chain?
It would cost nearly nothing. It would be fair.
You told $20 per TB, SNO gets 20 USDT that is easily converted into fiat money or anything else.
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Because they want to pay the fees with their token and conserve their actual cash for their operations and staff salaries.
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So now it seems more obvious that storj itself is a trinket with its valuation maintained by storj team
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And it looks like storj team is willing to get free hardware to run theirs project, for which they are get paid in US$, by paying storj token trinket to SNO.
Thatâs quite a nice business plan I should admit.
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Again, weâre not going to pay anyone in FIAT or another Cryptocurrency. Weâre sticking with the Storj token. Also, Iâm not at liberty to expound on âwhat ifâ scenarios with you. Comments about the token by staff, in general, are not allowed unless they go through the legal department first. Which can take months.
Ideally, you would get paid out over subsequent months and store your earnings in the L2 and not transfer them to L1. Take your 10% bonus each time. When they have reached a point where conversion to L1 makes financial sense to you, you can then convert them and likely have profited off the 10% bonus.
Where, if you plan to convert from L2 to L1 immediately so you can cash out right away every month than it doesnât make as much sense especially if you are a small operator. But this is because Ethereum fees are hgh for everyone. If they were pennies, there would be less of an issue here.
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Interesting definition where 8 months = immediately.
I somehow doubt you would be as tolerant if Storj were to come to you and ask that they suddenly convert to paying you Storj for your salary because banking costs were so high.
(it could save the company a lot of money after all)
But, thank you for the answer because it gives a much clearer idea of how Storj feels about SNOâs as opposed to the spouting that goes on normally. I know where I fit in the ecosystem now.
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I donât get paid in cash.
Storj Labs is a start-up company that has limited cash. They have a lot of employees. I am not an employee. I do not know what the terms are they set with each employee and contractor.