Right now it’s a part of the payout system. If you disagree, you could leave the network. We would be sorry that you go, but the safety of the customers’ data is very important to survive.
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There’s no reason for you to accept unpaid trash: you definately don’t have to use that space with Storj. You should offer your space to a project that rewards you better!
Or use the open source code to spin up your own competing service: with blackjack! And hookers! 
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hookers? Those are a dying breed. Onlyfans got them all.
Jockes aside, I’m renting my storage space to Storj. I don’t know what Storj is storing on my drives. So… I don’t accept unpaid trash. I accept a part of data stored as unpaid, because what can I do? I can’t verrify what that data is and ToS forbides me to manipulate or delete it. And I agree with ToS. We should not touch the data stored by Storj. But Storj must pay for space used, in return.
Imagine you rent a room in your house to a stranger. According to the terms of renting, the tenant pays you for the room and you don’t have to touch his stuff stored in that room. It’s realy not your business. But, the tenant starts to fill your entire house with his stuff? What should you do? Ask for more? Throw it away and make him call the cops because you touched/stealed his stuff? Or just accept it and live with a house full of someone else’s stuff even though he is not paying for the entire house?
According to Storj and you, you should be happy and not charge for more, right? 
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Its absolutely your call. Storj has given you the option to delete all trash. You can totally ignore the warnings.
https://forum.storj.io/t/avg-disk-space-used-dropped-with-60-70/26495/108?u=nerdatwork
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These both are radical decisions. Ultimatum. Being non-negotiable in extreme cases causes wars. When parties value their relationship whether business or personal they tend to talk over what the other party is concerned about and admit fair points and can come to a trade-off. Keeping the other party unhappy simply because there are no better options is not good for your reputation. And if you don’t care about your reputation it’s not good for your business.
As I said before you are new here so you might feel this offending/harsh but both users that you quoted above are very polite and very helpful to the core. I will try to help you understand Alexey’s sentence.
Read the second example carefully.
When we don’t like certain situations or have it our way, psychologically we tend to think that the people that should fix it are against us. So I urge you to try ignoring the negative sentiment you may seem to feel about how trash is currently handled. All the facts about trash are laid out to you. Storj may come up with a new way to deal with trash but till then this is what it is.
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These are not radical (nor important) decisions. Storj has over 20000 SNOs: a strong indication that they have a good reputation and valued relationships. If one SNO decides to try something else, that’s not an extreme decision. No war will be fought.
If I don’t like chocolate ice cream… I pick another flavor. I don’t sit down with the vendor for the chocolate and have a heartfelt discussion to see if we can come to another solution 
Sorry, I don’t need English dictionary to understand that sentence. I didn’t say it’s unpolite. I don’t care about the form I care about the meaning. And the meaning was exactly as I said, that is it’s non-negotiable.
And this only confirms my perception. It literally says “I don’t care if you disagree”.
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Exactly!
SNOs staying with Storj, or trying something else, isn’t something I feel strongly about. It’s their decision and I don’t see the need to sway them. Or you. If you’d like to encourage SNOs to stay and discuss different terms with Storj, that’s up to you. If we disagree, that’s OK.
Ok, understood, your advise to leave to those who disagree just meant that you don’t care about the trash handling unlike some others who expressed their concerns about it.
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@st99ab the only reason we have this much trash is because data that was actually supposed to be trashed ages ago, wasn’t, and this piled up on top of the recent(ish) free tier cancellation.
Normally trash is only supposed to be there if the client deletes something, as a safety net in case the satellite databases need to be restored from a backup.
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Finally some information with some essence in it. So sounds like hopefully it should improve. I just started 12 days ago and ran in so many issues and saw so many complaints about trash all over the forum that was struggling to understand what the system is like and if it has potentials in my opinion. Thank you for the hint.
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I would like to remind you all that this trash business is only a temporary measure, so please keep calm, stop complaining and and carry on. They would implement a better solution in the coming months <\s>
check the date of this post : https://forum.storj.io/t/deleted-pieces-will-be-sent-to-trash-by-default
some time after that, a change was made, and the nodes stopped getting direct deletes. so now everything (except TTL pieces) goes through the trash, and the option to avoid the trash mentioned in that post is useless.
when Storj reduced the payout rates this led to some of the largest nodes operators to check in more detail the used space vs payout and we realize that in some cases there were a 40% - 50% discrepancy caused by various reasons, among them that the bloom filter was not always received on time, and that its size was not big enough.
Even though they claim those has been fixed we are still getting copious amount of discrepancies in the disc usage (trash or otherwise). Now that there is a lot of ingress is easy to verify. you just need a node that has been full & online for a whole month and check the payout for that node at the end of the month, that will be your real-life payout rate.
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We have a saying in my country: “There is nothing more permanent than temporary”.
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Every workaround is temporary. Unless it works…
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If you feel offended - I’m sorry, I did not want to do that. But there are always decisions and agreements. The current offer is to be paid for used storage by the customers and for the used egress both by Storj network (audits and repairs) and by the customers. Unfortunately the used space in the trash currently isn’t paid. If the situation would change, we will inform the Community, however at the moment we do not have it.
We have less expenses but paying the same for the used storage, so your statement is a little bit incorrect.
It’s still pinned (you may check in incognito), but everyone can unpin it for themselves.
That is not precisely enough: The used space in the blobs folders that is waiting to be garbage collected and the used space in the trash that is waiting to be deleted does not getting paid. This can easily lead to 2 weeks and more the data is stored but not getting paid.
Unfortunately by using this space for free Storj has no incentive to change that.
Little side note: If Storj would have had to pay for the deleted but not yet garbage collected space, they probably would have noticed much earlier that garbage collection don’t work and bloom filters were too small and would have prevented that hundreds of terabytes would remain undeleted on nodes.
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This is why I explicitly said that
If data is deleted by the customers, it will become unpaid, even if that data is not moved to the trash, it’s a trash (the garbage) already.
Here perhaps another problem, that this deleted data could be on the disk up to two weeks with unlucky timing (for example data become deleted while the current BF is processed and thus would be collected only with the next BF and moved to the trash, where it would be for the next 7 days before removed permanently).
Not just timing.
We have seen many things that can lead to the case where deleted data does not get deleted: As we have just learned recently that Bloom filters can be too small, not being sent out on time or at all, deleted due to node restart etc. garbage not moved to trash as filewalkers did not finish. So there are many options that can easily increase the time beyond 2 weeks and more.
And even if everything goes normal, as it was mentioned before about the way Bloom filters work, they don’t collect everything thus leaving a certain percentage of data untouched that should be moved to the trash:
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2 weeks = Half a month that SNO does not get paid for.
We started with this being a temporary fix for the case when deletion requests could not be handled. But hey it is cheap, so let’s expand it.
Then this was made the general behavior with being said that it would only be 7 days of trash. Still it is cheap, let’s keep using it.
Now we are realizing that this can be easily 2 weeks and more even months, the data rests unpaid on the storage. Still for free. No priority to change anything.
Worst case is when it is not only not paid but also blocking new ingress. So SNO cannot even compensate effectively losing money.
This would all not an issue if Storj would pay for it. And if that’s too much that would be a great incentive to find a better solution and reduce those costs. And it would be a check and balance system to recognize issues with trash, trash removal, filewalkers etc. on Storj side in an early stage and not only after SNOs complain that something does not add up.
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