# Tokens flow and usage **URL:** \ **Category:** Uncategorized\ **Tags:** storj-token\ **Created:** [December 5, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042 "2019-12-05T15:32:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![lex-1](https://storj.bcdn.literatehosting.com/user_avatar/forum.storj.io/lex-1/32/60_2.png) [@lex-1](https://forum.storj.io/u/lex-1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 3:32pm UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042/1 "2019-12-05T15:32:39Z")
> [@Storage Nodes Full of Test Data](https://forum.storj.io/t/storage-nodes-full-of-test-data/2751/34): > > There is a fixed total amount that can never change. They have large reserves for now but when that’s gone they will be forced to buy them back themselves to pay SNOs. You should see the token as just an intermediate, it’s not a magic way for them to create money where there is none. Can you develop on the subject. 425 millions STORJ have been created out of thin air, at the IPO they sold 60 millions STORJ at $.50 USD so they collected $30 millions USD. The customers pay in USD the SNO are paid in tokens, of course they can convert to FIA or hope that they will rise. Now after the SNO’s payouts137 millions STORJ are in circulations. I could be missing something but to me it looks like creating money where there is none. ---
**Author:** ![heunland](https://storj.bcdn.literatehosting.com/user_avatar/forum.storj.io/heunland/32/6076_2.png) [@heunland](https://forum.storj.io/u/heunland)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 4:12pm UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042/2 "2019-12-05T16:12:02Z")
Tokens are not being created out of thin air. The token sale in 2017 was not an IPO, as we migrated the already existing SJCX tokens from the Counterparty platform to convert them to STORJ ERC20 tokens on the Ethereum platform (and burning some of the inititial supply in the process, rather than creating more tokens magically). Please read our [Token Balances and Flows reports](https://storj.io/blog/categories/tokens) which we publish quarterly on our blog to discover details about the exact amounts of tokens sold at the Token Sale, and the current status of lockup contracts that prevent Storj Labs from suddenly dumping huge amounts of tokens on the market. We transparently publish all details about our token’s sources and destiny of every single STORJ. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSilence](https://storj.bcdn.literatehosting.com/user_avatar/forum.storj.io/brightsilence/32/6048_2.png) [@BrightSilence](https://forum.storj.io/u/BrightSilence)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 4:18pm UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042/3 "2019-12-05T16:18:31Z")
I wasn’t talking about the ICO of SJCX or the token sale of STORJ and I won’t because honestly I don’t know enough of the details to comment on it. What I do know is that it’s not possible to create more STORJ tokens after that initial creation. So if you pay SNOs more than you make, you will bleed money until you die. It’s not a sustainable model. That said, it’s exactly what they have been doing for months and will be doing a while longer with surge payments and paying for all internal testing that doesn’t generate income for them either. Fine for now, but not sustainable long term, so normal payouts are based on what normal network use would earn them. And I wouldn’t want it any other way. Otherwise Storjlabs wouldn’t be able to survive long term and us SNOs kind of need them to survive in order to get paid going forward. ---
**Author:** ![lex-1](https://storj.bcdn.literatehosting.com/user_avatar/forum.storj.io/lex-1/32/60_2.png) [@lex-1](https://forum.storj.io/u/lex-1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 5:05pm UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042/4 "2019-12-05T17:05:53Z")
> [@Storage Nodes Full of Test Data](https://forum.storj.io/t/storage-nodes-full-of-test-data/2751/37): > > Please read our [Token Balances and Flows reports](https://storj.io/blog/categories/tokens) Thanks for confirming and detailing my figures. I never said you were suddenly dumping huge amounts, you are just slowly diluting the STORJ value by monthly dumping STORJ’s on an already saturated market, bringing its value to daily new lows. The IPO was very successful and the STORJ went from its $.50 IPO to $3 shortly after, in a crypto craze time but since then it fall by 94% to $.11, as no commercial product is available nearly 2 years later. ---
**Author:** ![lex-1](https://storj.bcdn.literatehosting.com/user_avatar/forum.storj.io/lex-1/32/60_2.png) [@lex-1](https://forum.storj.io/u/lex-1)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 5:39pm UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042/5 "2019-12-05T17:39:48Z")
> [@Storage Nodes Full of Test Data](https://forum.storj.io/t/storage-nodes-full-of-test-data/2751/38): > > I wasn’t talking about the ICO of SJCX or the token sale of STORJ and I won’t because honestly I don’t know enough of the details to comment on it. What I do know is that it’s not possible to create more STORJ tokens after that initial creation. So if you pay SNOs more than you make, you will bleed money until you die. It’s not a sustainable model. That said, it’s exactly what they have been doing for months and will be doing a while longer with surge payments and paying for all internal testing that doesn’t generate income for them either. Fine for now, but not sustainable long term, so normal payouts are based on what normal network use would earn them. And I wouldn’t want it any other way. Otherwise Storjlabs wouldn’t be able to survive long term and us SNOs kind of need them to survive in order to get paid going forward. I fully agree with you when the bitcoin was created with a cap, it was great idea to stop inflation. But when thousand’s of new crypto’s have been created, it completely defeat the idea. STORJ created 42.5mSTORJ out of fine air, the market on an offer/demand give its valu, when STORJ doesn’t come up with a product/income and dump STORJ tokens every month, it just dilute the STORJ value. If the users had to buy STROJ’s to use the system it would keep an offer/demand on the STORJ but would be very cumbersome for the customer dissuading most users. If storj was buying STORJ’s with every $ from its customer it would make sense and keep a value to the STORJ. But they don’t have any paying customers and are just running on the tokens. ---
**Author:** ![BrightSilence](https://storj.bcdn.literatehosting.com/user_avatar/forum.storj.io/brightsilence/32/6048_2.png) [@BrightSilence](https://forum.storj.io/u/BrightSilence)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042/6 "2019-12-05T18:08:20Z")
Don’t you think it’s a bit premature to come to this conclusion before V3 is even in production? ---
**Author:** ![BrightSilence](https://storj.bcdn.literatehosting.com/user_avatar/forum.storj.io/brightsilence/32/6048_2.png) [@BrightSilence](https://forum.storj.io/u/BrightSilence)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 10:26am UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042/7 "2019-12-06T10:26:10Z")
> [@Storage Nodes Full of Test Data](https://forum.storj.io/t/storage-nodes-full-of-test-data/2751/40): > > If the users had to buy STROJ’s to use the system it would keep an offer/demand on the STORJ but would be very cumbersome for the customer dissuading most users. I agree that having users actually pay in STORJ for the service would generate a better token market. But you also mentioned the problem with that. Perhaps they could offer a modest 5-10% discount when the service is paid for in STORJ to both not limit payment methods to STORJ, but also give some incentive to use the token. ---
**Author:** ![silaxe](https://storj.bcdn.literatehosting.com/user_avatar/forum.storj.io/silaxe/32/64_2.png) [@silaxe](https://forum.storj.io/u/silaxe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 2:29pm UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042/8 "2019-12-06T14:29:19Z")
> [@Storage Nodes Full of Test Data](https://forum.storj.io/t/storage-nodes-full-of-test-data/2751/40): > > If storj was buying STORJ’s with every $ from its customer it would make sense and keep a value to the STORJ When customers will start using the service and pay in fiat, Storj will use this fiat to buy STORJ on markets to pay SNOs while, at the moment, Storj is living on its own STORJ tokens to pay SNOs? Can you confirm that this is what is happening/will happen? ---
**Author:** ![BrightSilence](https://storj.bcdn.literatehosting.com/user_avatar/forum.storj.io/brightsilence/32/6048_2.png) [@BrightSilence](https://forum.storj.io/u/BrightSilence)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2019, 2:59pm UTC](https://forum.storj.io/t/tokens-flow-and-usage/3042/9 "2019-12-06T14:59:26Z")
I think everyone should keep in mind that official comments from Storjlabs regarding how they deal with tokens need to be handled with a lot of care in order to not unduly manipulate the value of the STORJ token. Forward looking statements like when and how they will buy back tokens are not likely going to be made here on the forum as a result of that. This is one subject where the usually very open and informal communication by Storjlabs is not an option. For statements regarding token management, it’s best to keep an eye on the quarterly token reports. And other official communications. > **[STORJ Token Balances and Flows Report: Q3 2019](https://storj.io/blog/2019/10/storj-token-balances-and-flows-report-q3-2019/)** > > The STORJ token is an integral part of the Tardigrade network. STORJ tokens provide a quick and easy way to transfer value between Storj Labs, those who provide storage capacity and bandwidth to the network, and those who use it to store and retrieve...