@deathlessdd has some pretty good examples of that
egress dropped to basically zero…
Maybe payout scheme should vary for different node age?
Now here’s someone that does their homework. Think Storj could maybe go over this and figure out we really can’t compete with datacenters unless we basically become datacenters ourselves?
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not sure how one would do that in a fair way… why is any of the data more or less worth than other… i guess one could make some sort of like bonus for older nodes, so they get say 10% extra in payouts…
but that would promote an elite subset of SNOs, which would then long term hinder the growth of the network… new nodes means more bandwidth… atleast in theory.
i like the idea, but i can’t see it as being viable.
i think CP makes a lot of great points, in this extensive post.
i know that for me, running multiple nodes there are extra costs which wouldn’t exist with a more professional SNO tier, we have a bit of a war on getting the most data.
so there is an economical incentive on the time spent on dealing with whatever issues that arise.
i can’t imagine running a single node and actually bother to keep track of it, if its earning a few $.
it simply doesn’t make sense, and sure there might be good or bad years, but eventually SNOs will have to spend time dealing with hardware or software issues on top of just monitoring.
most of us also uses services such as uptime robot, which again becomes less viable the lower the earnings on the entire setup is.
we also have to be fair to StorjLabs, because they also have to be profitable and i think their maximum offer of 2/3’s of their customer payment going to SNOs, is a good attempt…
the issues just becomes that 2/3’s of the customer payments simply doesn’t cover the SNOs costs, atleast in the current configuration.
so either customer prices has to go up, or we / they need to find some other place to optimize.
like what i suggested here.
a reduction in the expansion ratio would go a long way towards fixing all the issues i see with the offer… assuming we got 2/3’s of the customer payments
From this page:
“We recommend interfacing with the network directly through the Uplink CLI or using our AWS CLI and Hosted Gateway MT.”
So how are people being encouraged to self host? Seems you recommend using “OUR” gateway…
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I believe it will be deleted sooner or later, especially when real customers data is in flow to the network.
Did I just read this right?
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Yea, I know. I personally prefer to use a client-side encryption… But you know? If I can just change few lines in the config of my service which running for years and ALSO reduce costs, you get it, right?
Please explain how you did it?
I just assume, that the test data must be replaced with a customers’ data.
P.S. I’m SNO as well
That would be perfectly fine with me.
My assumptions:
- Increase the customer storage price to $5 or $6.
- I will be able to buy a used hard drive just for a storagenode.
- I will be able to cover the power consumption.
- I can break even in about 2 years.
- With this we can reach Exabyte.
Calculations:
I pay 0.4031€/kWh in Germany.
I have a nuc and a 12TB hdd with an average consumption of about 17W.
So about 5€ per month for electricity.
A used 12TB hdd costs about 162€ and is about 1,5-2 years old.
With a new node in 2 years and:
2$ storage
2€ storage
2€ repair
I may earn $368 in the first 2 years.
-120€ for electricity - 162€ hdd I would be left with 86€.
That would be an average earning of about 3.5€/month. That would be worth it to buy another used hdd when the first one is full.
My absolute minimum would be:
$1.7 storage
2€ storage
2€ repair
I may earn 319$ in the first 2 years
-120€ for electricity - 162€ for hard drives I would be left with 37€.
That would be an average earning of about 1.5€/month. That would be ok, because it gives me a little wiggle room in case energy prices go up even more.
In both cases it is not really worth it in the first two years, but at least the break even point is reached. The hdd is now about 4 years old in both cases. After 4 years, the probability increases strongly that the hdd can break at any moment. So every additional month would be a hope that the hard disk will not break. And for every month I would earn something.
I used for a new node and calculated with realistic-earnings-estimator
Forgive me, I always assumed you were affiliated with Storj since you often sound as if you are. And by you mentioning “when” it came accross as there not being any customer data yet. My bad.
Oh I completely understand for the sake of ease, but there should be incentive to use something that doesn’t cost Storj as much… like I’ve suggested about giving customers large free bandwidth packages by capitalizing on the fact that bandwidth typically doesn’t cost SNO’s anything. Pay us decent per TB and use more of our bandwidth as a marketing tactic!
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oh, sorry about confusion, I’m affiliated with Storj, but I have my own opinions 
and I’m a Community leader in a first place, so I want to send all thoughts from the Community to the team to take more focus on what’s Community need.
and we will make sure that’s listening by the company
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“A download can become a chargeable event for 2 times the actual file size if the gateway is running on another cloud provider.”
As this would probably be the use case for most customers, this is obviously a HUGE turnoff. Another reason I suggest generous free bandwidth packages. But SNO’s really need to get at least $2.50 to $3/TB stored for this in my opinion. It would give Storj something substantial over the competition in order to incentivize high bandwidth customers.
This is actually not a problem, if you conclude a partnership with Storj. We have a ways to reduce these costs to 0, but need to know the exact use-case.
The simplest way is to use a VM (or VPS) provider who do not charge for egress, or use known compute cloud providers like AWS or use a fog-computing.
Some posts ago I suggested to have a mechanism that would offload old data (the most cold one) from old to new nodes, making room for new data that has more potential to generate egress. So it’s a bonus for old nodes, making sure at least some data is fresh, but a small hindrance to new nodes, since they would get a mix of fresh and old data. Though, more or less, each node would eventually be a similar mix of old and new. Yes, that generates additional traffic, but I’d gladly send a GB of old data to new node for free so I can replace it with a GB of still hot data.
it’s hard to distinguish the “cold storage” from a “hot storage” now…
however, it’s offtopic.
Would be much more useful to know, what’s price is compelling to your setup? or at least how costly it for you to run a node.
They may not charge for egress, but if they charge for ingress it’s all the same. Running a gateway on a VPS means your data counts as both ingress as well as egress as it’s coming from the customers systems IN through the VPS gateway and back OUT to storage nodes. When accessing data, it’s coming IN from the storage nodes and back OUT to the customer. If the VPS provider charges for both, as well as Storj bandwidth costs, they’re actually getting hit 3 times.
Using data from storjnet.info, energypriceindex.com for EU countries (feb. 2023) and globalpetrolprices.com for others (they seem from 2022), for the first 54 top countries by node numbers, I calculated the following energy consumptions and costs for storagenodes at the end of february 2023:
- for 10Wh per node (1 HDD), 7.3KW/month/node;
- for 20490 out of 20699 nodes (98.99%);
- total energy cost per all nodes 38225$;
- average energy cost per node 1.87$;
- 7317 nodes with cost under 1$;
- 3744 nodes with cost between 1.01 - 2$;
- 4528 nodes with cost between 2.01 - 3$;
- 4901 nodes with cost between 3.01 - 4$;
- highest cost per node 3.86$;
- lowest cost per node 0.23$;
The prices used are for households, not businesses, and are the average for the respective countries. I don’t know how accurate they are. For ex. I pay double the price found on the internet. So for a safe aproximation, you can double the values.
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Is it appealing though? If yes, then we can figure out how to do it.
I’ve already shared. Now I’m waiting for Storj Labs move during twitter space event.