Announcement: Changes to node payout rates as of December 1st 2023 (Open for comment)

That was for a single IP with a bandwidth amount that the majority of home connections these days can handle without issues. HDD costs are included, so that covers depreciation entirely. CPU was excluded intentionally since you shouldn’t run Storj on dedicated hardware or at most something really low power which you can see from the calculation will cut significantly into your earnings. And if you’re concerned about WACC, I’m not sure what kind of operation you intend to run, but I’d say your way off track for what Storj is intended to be.

I’m not sure what you meant by your last sentence.

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I am sorry, but I got a feeling that you are repeating what you have been told to say and what I was referring to when writing about a double bottom. Thanks for the chat. I am off.

If you really think @BrightSilence is just a parrot for the company, then you have either not been in these forums long enough or not read many of his posts.
This message has been reiterated many, many, many times and you are, of course, perfectly entitled to ignore it, but don’t then be surprised if things don’t work out as you planned.

Anyway, I don’t wish to cause any bad blood here, I will only wish you a very good night and a pleasant rest. Tomorrow will be another day :slight_smile:

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That is because a lot of people here don’t get that STORJ sells a very basic run-of-the-mill product. You can’t open up a gas station right next to another one and take 20cents more per liter. That will never work, no matter how nice and shiny your station is.

We already had thousand of posts discussing this.
Some people think it is superior, some think it is not.
Either way, customers either don’t see it or don’t care.

I’m literally describing how I run my nodes. Which I decided upon by looking at what’s reasonable and profitable. You’ll notice that I included HDD prices into that calculation, which doesn’t match the Storj advise. But I have bought HDD’s as well as external HDD bays for Storj specifically. However I can’t be profitable if I run a whole server dedicated for Storj. I’m my own person, thank you very much.

@ACarneiro, @IsThisOn and @BrightSilence

I can only express a small smile and point you to The Manifesto (link) by @syncamide and @Willie and Co. as well as to my concerns related to the proposed pricing strategy and to some basic questions associated with it. Good night. :- )

There are things I agree and disagree with you here… But the main one I do agree is the whole PC consumption.

On a 5-year scale, a PC with a mere global 80w consumption (including the hard drives) will do 0,08 kWh * 24h * 365 * 5 = 3504 kWh. With the same reference rate at 0,15$ per kWh, we’d be looking at 525,60$ for consumption. That is closer to the real consumption on a regular desktop PC, on the use-case Storj wants to have.

Bandwidth isn’t paid for at an enough scale that justifies in my opinion considering the cost, since it’s only 500gb/month. And a SNO should optimize its assets - if you accept 600 USD for 30TB HDD’s that renders a very high 20 USD/TB, when having it substantially lower is possible (although with an energy cost increase, there’s a transfer).

However, hardware depreciation, WACC and especially time, be it the initial or subsequent manteinances, should be taken into consideration. Also you’re not taking into consideration held amount on the calculation, and that should be taken into account.

The server consumption and its hardware costs are excluded from this quote for a reason, that this server has been bought and operated before Storj, so these costs and energy consumption already paid. You didn’t expect to cover them with income from some future usage. When you run storagenode, you add some energy consumption on running the software, when you bought a new disk for the storage node, it’s included to the costs and power consumption. And you see a result of these calculations.

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Well, right now this really looks like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole (“натягивание совы на глобус”) in terms of economic calculations. We just need to admit that in reality, storage node operators’ investments in the nodes are always and significantly above zero. Therefore, especially for regions with expensive electricity and non-unlimited internet, it seems that the current payouts are already at that threshold beyond which it doesn’t make sense to maintain a storage node.

You are literally saying the opposite of what has been discussed ad nauseam. Did you read at least this thread?

Storj: don’t buy anything, use existing servers that are running anyway
Users: “we need to admit that” our “investment in the nodes are significantly above zero”
Storj: ??? What did I just said?!

If you admit to what you said - great, you are admitting you have misunderstood the whole project, and can now correct your mistake by existing the node.

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Considering the concerns shared by many here, it might be beneficial for you to consult with an optometrist, as one of the forum members suggested. And I do not intend to discuss the economics of SNO with you.

Whatever the node economics will be the node numbers are still climbing. lol
:rofl:

There are 23,536 active nodes, +267 during the last day

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What concerns? Who shared? Specifics please. All I see is a few confused people with unrealistic expectations and sense of entitlement.

I see. You only discuss things with people you already agree with. Great strategy. Top notch.

It’s amazing you bothered and managed
to type the whole three paragraphs with zero signal, all noise.

If you have specific questions — ask. If you disagree with me — point out where I am wrong. That would be constructive. Because otherwise it’s a whiny 5 year old that did not get his way.

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bro!
Why this mythical number of nodes?
There could be at least a million of them, it’s not difficult.
It’s just fake - don’t look at that number.
Only the number /24 networks is important.
It’s just that /24 has not been growing anywhere for a long time, because IP are not free, unlike the fake concept - the number of nodes .

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Important for what?

Why do you say number of nodes is irrelevant? Why do you care about /24? This only affects uploads. Downloads are still parallel.

The screenshot by the way says “at least”. Perhaps there is more. But it still does not matter.

I could have sworn I had 4 nodes running at home…

It is relatively easy for one node operator to have multiple nodes, maybe even running on the same drive/array. However, they are not really separate. If the operator decides to stop, he will most likely stop all of his nodes. All nodes in a /24 are treated as one big node by the network anyway.

Separate /24 subnets are more difficult to get, so they probably more accurately indicate the number of node operators. Still, there are some operators who run nodes on multiple subnets (they probably should not though, as it more likely means that the nodes run on dedicated hardware). Number of different wallets may be another measure, but not all node operators get paid every month.

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Uff, some people really have a hard time understanding economics, don’t they?
Maybe it gets clearer with an analogy.

STORJ comes up with a platform to rent out your unused guestroom.
They call it STORBNB.

They say "Don’t buy houses for that! You can’t compete with hotels! This is just for unused guestrooms! Ohh, and by the way, we have got a lot of VC money, we will pay you 5 times the amount the customer pays us!

Sane people in the forum go “Well, that is nice. I have a spare room. Maybe I can make 50$ extra”

Dreamers in the forum go “Hell yes! Look at these prices! I am gonna buy 20 homes and rent them to STORBNB! I never have to work again! This is the passive income my Youtube bros are always talking about. I don’t give a s***t what STORBNB thinks about buying new homes! If I would not buy homes, there would not be enough STORBNBs!”

Sane people in the forum go: “Dude, 50% of the STORBNB homes are empty! We have oversupply!”

Dreamers go: “I don’t care. I make good money!”

2y later:

STORJ: "Sorry guys, we will wind down the subsidies. We won’t pay you 5x anymore, just what the customer pays us.

Dreamers: “Damn you scammers! I have invested so many money in new houses! You guys are the worst! If you really cut subsidies, I will no longer rent rooms on STORBNB! Do you guys know what a cleaning company costs? I will sell houses or go to SIABNB!”

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I am happy to discuss what are the things you agree and do not agree with me as I would like to broaden my view on this project that in general is to my interest. However, I joined this discussion mostly to ask some questions related to the basis on which the argumentation was outlined here by the company representative with a hope of receiving some answers. It was just @IsThisOn that engaged me into slightly more extensive discussion. I fully agree with you that costs should be taken into account with all appropriate details and if this is not only going to be a hobby / charity project some additional financial factors as well.

Well @Alexey, this is what you are telling here but in fact this is a kind of a line of credit in a financial or business sense especially that the payment is deferred. So if you are going to Forrester and GigaOm telling the story, IMO this fact should not be omitted, especially that the message is also that the pricing is 10 x lower then the competition.

I believe best is to operate with firm fundamentals and for me almost since the very beginning of my presence here some things just do not add up, like for example carbon footprint and possibly reliability thus some additional questions. Should it be the fact, the sooner one realize it, the better.

I would like to add that it seems that The LOTR Team is kindly knocking on your doors and kindly telling you … “we like you”.

I don’t want to look like I am repeating only one thing, but can you please share some information about how do you plan to move to bigger scale with “use only unused space” quote?
I mean if Storj will need to get more space from “public network” (not SOC2 network), how do you plan to ask for it? Do you think that if you ask for “use only what you have, but share more to storj” will work? Or do you think more operators will always come so the available “unused space” is unlimited?
Disclaimer: I have nothing against, I just don’t understand it and trying not to see future in DCs.

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