Automating the Sale of STORJ – Is It Worth It?

Because it depends on how much these providers charge, some have a fixed amount based on number of recipients, some just take their percent for each point - the paperwork, the transfer, taxation, etc. Also depends on the used transfer method, some may take 30% only because of the used payment method. The resulted costs should be covered, right?
So, from what they should be covered? They also usually charge both sides!

For example, my provider charge me $10 for SWIFT + some almost random sum by banks in between. With payout of $15 it will be madness, and if I choose a stablecoin, I will be charged up to 20% depending on the moon phase.

Have you ever had a strange neighbor… who sometimes just stands on their lawn and yells at the clouds? And you can’t really reason with them… and they’re not affecting anything… so you just decide to not talk to them… and let them make noise and be happy?

I appreciate the patience you’ve shown: repeating the same sane talking points over-and-over. Just realize when you may be talking to another dude out on his lawn :squinting_face_with_tongue:

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Thank you! I just wants to explain, that nothing is simple there with money transfers between a company and the contractor, even if you may think it’s simple for the other side.
I did think the same… Until I meet a hard reality.

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You can reason with htem. They keep repeating the question because they are receiving non-answers.

Can I have one answer in the open here, that has been evaded so far?

“Why not stablecoin”?

Solves everything. Behaves like a token – and is non-volatile. Why is “stablecoing is out of question”?

The answer to this question will resolve the whole debacle.

  • Either give techincal reason
  • Or signal that storj has resons to stick to token that it does not want to disclose.

Both outcomes are fine and both are high quality signal.

The reason is simple: I don’t want to be paid with bills lit on fire. That’s it.

BTW, this is another example of a non-answer.:

Tha’s why you outsource. Not re-invent. Is storj in business of storage or international payments?

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I can only provide this site:

I didn’t hear anything about changing the payout system.

And it’s costly. Why do we need to increase costs? I just don’t get it.

"I’m also mining STORJ with my spare resources to offset server costs, but honestly, what matters more to me is this project’s long-term survival. It seems like many people here care more about stable, predictable income than hitting big numbers.

I understand there’s a conflict of interests between both sides, but I hope node operators and Storj Labs can narrow this gap through more honest and constructive dialogue. In the long run, that would benefit the entire project."

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Still 50% is just an random arbitrary number. Maybe it is only 10%.

It does not make sense to make an argument based on guesses. The key is to talk to the companies suggested and evaluate if their offering can be interesting or not. This is all it takes. Not ruling out anything beforehand without facts.

Yes SWIFT is expensive. But what if these providers have additional options to SWIFT?
Here is what Thunes states for example:
https://www.thunes.com/products/pay-to-banks/

Benefit from instant or same-day transactions and access more than 54 local, Real-Time Payment systems in one single, unified structure.

Or under https://pricing.payouts.com/
There under Pay-Out you can see that they offer local and SWIFT transfers. Local charge for Germany would be $1.30.
Yes, i would certainly accept a $1.30 charge to avoid the crypto nonsense.

How do they do it? I don’t know. This is why it would be essential to talk to them. I can see they offer global local currency accounts for example. Maybe as a customer you pay in USD in your USD account with them and move the money you want to payout to a EUR account for example and then you can payout your recipients to bank at $1.30 each.
Or it works the way that it is sufficient to fund a USD account with them and they move the funds through their own network or infrastructure directly to the recipients. Maybe moving through the network isn’t even required at all because technically if they receive your money in location A they can pay out their own money in location B without needing to move a single cent. I guess this is how Paypal, Western Union, Wise etc. work.

Also for USA domestic transfers SWIFT is not an issue. So even if we put aside international transfers, SNOs could provide a local US bank account through Wise or others and would be able to receive their payouts at local US charges.
Trolley is listing $1.00 for US domestic payouts: https://trolley.com/trolley-pricing/. Their Paypal fee is zero. And they even offer customized pricing:

Sending over $100,000 in payouts every month? Contact us to discuss customized pricing.

So all it takes is to invest 10 minutes to explore their solutions and discuss with them if it fits or not.

For me personally payout in stablecoin or at least an automatic settlement option like Off-ramp Payouts | Accept Crypto, Settle in Fiat | NOWPayments would already be a great improvement.

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For this research it must have a requirement from the business, right now it seems like absent.
I researched these providers when it was actual (but do not want to repeat, sorry), the resulted fee was $99.96 per receiver per month (it was a sum+percent based), the receiver then should withdraw their money with any supported method and the cheapest was SWIFT which I provided in my example, they also now have a Visa direct transfers, which might be cheaper, like 2% max $15.
I cannot provide you exact calculations though, but you may try, if you are so interested.

That site is a marketing nonsense (all nosie, no signal; and replacing STORJ with USDT keeps the text valid), but I appreciate the answer, and it tells me all I needed to know.

Because someone has to pay. Now storj shifts this to vendors and customers’ sholders. Every single customer and vendor pays the price. Individually. in teh form of volatility, conversion fees, transfer fees.

Picking payment solution that does it centrally and on the scale will be cheaper. Why? Because it would be on scale, and not everyone DIYing it themselves.

Why do you think payment processors exist if they are “fees with no benefits”?

Or, more precisely, people want the money they received for services provided to “not be lit on fire”. They want for the value received to persist until it reaches their bank account.

Is this too much to ask? Is is an unresonable ask?

Storj has money my nodes earned in USD. They swap it to STORJ (fee), tranfer to my wallet (fee), unknown time passes before I can swap to usd during which unknown amount of value is lost (unknown fee), then finaly I swap it to USD(fee), and send to my bank account (free in US, maybe anohter fee elsewhere).

How the hell is this cheaper and better than storj paying payment processors to handle all that, and avoid back-and-forth stupid swaps, but mainly – value loss?

Payment processors would actually optoimize – US operators transfer will be cheap. Kimbuktu transfer will be more expensive. Not storj’s problem. They focus on storage. Paymen processor will focus on payments. Storj will save money because they can pay operators less, and operators will receive more, because value won’ tbe burned on uselsess back and forth swaps.

Becasue operators are eating the cost. How long can storj abuse vendors? I don’t know. But this does not create goodwill.

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USDT is forbidden in EU, as it not meet regulation standards.

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So, USDT is forbidden and Storj is allowed? Because it too small to care? Will it be forbidden once volume grows enough? So, this is not a sustainable solution right there, if it relies on flying under the radar.

Even more so, delegating the risks to the company that specializes on wordlwide payment shall be prioritized, not DYIng it via crypto payments with dodgy tokens. The whole association with cryptio undermines trust in this project in many people’s eyes, including my own. Storj provides valuable service and yet tarnishes the reputation with the crypto nonsense…

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Of course and Storj pay it, also SNO pay some fee too on transactions to the exchange. Or, in your happy case - you pay nothing, because you use a deposit address of the exchange.
With payment providers this will not change except increasing mandatory fees on both sides.

Unfortunatelly usually not in this case, they charge per contractor+country+amount. But maybe they have some discounts, I didn’t find this information that time. They provided exactly the same numbers, which I was able to figure out.
I do not want to do a research again, sorry. I am not a US resident or a US employer, so I cannot take into account all the nuances even if it were necessary to change the payment method, which is not currently required.

Look, Thunes has even an article on Micropayments:

They know they cannot charge $99 per receiver per month. This does not make sense at all.

Even Storj if the Gas price go up crazy high again. Only winners are basically Ethereum network, and exchanges.

Exactly.

Other stablecoins are not forbidden in the EU. In fact stablecoins are getting more traction now as they are more regulated and therefore a “safe” alternative for serious settlement cases other than arbitrary tokens.

Why is USDT prohibited in Europe?

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Actually those providers charged not per month, it was per payout. Just payout usually per month, my bad. I forgot that some employers may provide payouts per week or even per day.

Looks like because storj already has all the crypto payment infrastructure in place, switchign to stablecon would be the easierst and lowest cost solution here, but they don’t want to, nor want to articulate the reasons, and hence it’s a stalemate – no amount of reasoning will change anything.

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Please do not take my opinion and guesses about reasons as an official Storj position.
I shared this thread with the team, but I do not have an official answer, so I do not want to speculate about why not stablecoins. These options were in the same cattle with PayPal or the Binance chain.

I can discuss from the business point of view and my own experience, why payment providers can be not an option. However, it’s still my opinion :person_shrugging:

I still think, that this discussion could be helpful and maybe change something.

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Whilst there are 35k active nodes, and an abundance of free space. They have no need or desire to change SNO payout mode/structure.

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At one point even regular banks might accept stablecoins if they become more popular.
Yes, dump exchanges, get paid in stablecoin from Storj to banks account stablecoin address. Such a future could be on the horizon with latest stablecoin regulations.

Almost every government want to implement their own digital currency (and forbid any others, of course), because the technology proved to be stable, durable and fast, also - trackable and/or have an expiration date. Even VISA got it.
But I have doubts that these governments would allow to flow an USDT/whatever USD-based tokens in their banks.

But it’s a full offtopic, so please, do not continue, I would be forced to split it..

That sounds even worse.
A micropayment is a very very small amount from cents to $10. If a micropayment provider charges $99 per transaction for micropayments, then it is certainly either not a micropayment provider or the wrong one.

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