Feb. 8 Update on SNO Payouts and High Ethereum Gas Prices

[littleskunk]

@Josh_Garza

I would love a webinar (live or recorded) about this L2 payment option for the SNOs non familiar with zkSync.

How about this: Test zkSync with TestSTORJ token

I know it is not a webinar but you can test zkSync for free and it is easy to use.

[nerdatwork]

Minimum Threshold for Storage Node Operator Payouts

I don’t think that migration to other blockchain could help. We did already in the past and there we are with the exact same problem. You can read here: https://forum.storj.io/t/new-utility-token-for-small-transfers/11089/17?u=alexey And also I think that more wide ETH community than any other new blockchain can offer much more solutions like batches, L2, ETH 2.0 The moving was a painful for sure, we still have requests to convert useless SJCX tokens to STORJ, even they are deprecated and not…

[Putte]

I agree with you, even if they hide behind the “you get same amount in USD anyhow”, we are losing the opportunity to gain marked value on the Storj token.

If we where paid now, we could deside on our own, now we are bound. This is an issue, I’m not sure how to solve the issue, but there is an issue.

[littleskunk]

@GabrielKnight

If we want this project to have a promising future, we must migrate to other much more scalable networks.

ETH is currently the only blockchain that is working on a promising solution. Other blockchains might scale a bit better for a few months but since they still have a limit we would get the same problem quickly.

@GabrielKnight

You have to migrate to other networks like Cardano or even ETC.

What do we do when everyone migrates to Cardano and the blocks are getting full? Migrate back to ETH? One migration per Month or what is the plan?

@GabrielKnight

Besides, ETH has very few nodes working precisely because it is monstrously large and it is no longer possible to synchronize or download it unless it is done from AWS or another mega CPD (AWS stopped providing service a weeks ago in a historical blackout and ETH stopped working 40-50%).

This is not correct. My own geth node is running just fine. You can setup one yourself as well. For me the sync didn’t take a week.

Please don’t mix full nodes with full archive nodes. With ethereum you might get problems to fill out your tax report because you need to ask a full archive node about events from last year. If you want to move you balance you can do that with every full node and there are plenty of them.

@GabrielKnight

The future will give me reason.

If we go back in time we had already one migration from BTC to ETH Blockchain for exactly the same reasons. So here we are hitting the ETH limit. Wasn’t your advice to migrate to the ETH blockchain? (even if you haven’t your current advice is still the same) Why should we believe that your current advice will work better this time?

[vincetheblack]

And a migration from ETH to AVAX, the bridge ETH/AVAX is open ?

[sorry2xs]

too many migrations stability signal not

[mdmeyerpfa]

How about an option to have deferred payments held as Storj tokens as an IOU so that those SNOs who think the price trends are bullish will not miss out.

[Alexey]

@Putte

If we where paid now, we could deside on our own, now we are bound. This is an issue, I’m not sure how to solve the issue, but there is an issue.

It’s called L2. zkSync in particular - you can receive payout independently of minimum threshold and withdraw to L1 when you want. But you will pay fee for withdrawal:

L2 Payouts with Zksync

In response to the feedback we’ve received about SNO payments (particularly in light of recent ETH volatility): We would like to thank you for always voicing your thoughts and feedback. We are fortunate to have a community of clearheaded, solutions-oriented folks who help us work through these issues. You help us make the system better when you point out flaws, and you frequently help us come up with novel solutions that are better because of your participation. We appreciate you greatly. We …

[Krimarai]

It is not that Storj are bending exchange rate situation to their convenience. If storj token value would drop, they would still pay you exact same amount in USD by increasing amount of storj tokens in payment. This is a clear financial risk Storj is taking.
It is important to not mix several problems in one. The problem with not receiving extra benefit from increase of tokens price, when they already could have been in your wallet - this is more of an investment topic, a separate problem, and Storj is not a broker or anything to make sure we are receiving such benefit. The problem with delayed payments is another problem, for which Storj now works to provide solution.

[hb020]

@oc149

I understand it doesn’t work for everyone, but fiat payment will work for both Storj and many SNOs.
…

Major cryptocurrencies have strangely become reserve assets and the ability to use them for small transactions will probably get worse and worse with time.
…
There is nothing inherent in the STORJ storage model (which is quite brilliant) that requires using an ERC20 token as means of payment.

Totally agree.
If soon (as I understand) we will be given the choice between designating an L1 STORJ wallet address, or an L2 wallet address, why not add the possibility of designating a fiat currency address (SEPA or paypal or whatever)?

Storj keeps telling us they do not want pay out in anything other than the USD equivalent in STORJ in order to not expose the users to the market fluctuations. Well, that is the exact contrary of what they do by paying out in a cryptocurrency. ANY cryptocurrency.

I have loads of free space, am active close to 2 years now, and got a very fast link. So I guess I fetch about the max one could get with 1 IP address. And still, my average of about 60 USD per month is below the threshold now.

That makes me wonder about 2 things:

1. My free space has not moved significantly for months now. Looks like we have a surplus on the network: not enough demand. Should I worry about the future of the network?
2. If even I’m affected, what about the many smaller SNOs?

Just looked at storjnet.info, don’t know if the info there is representative, but this is what I found:
Number of nodes, number of Payout transactions:
for Sep '20 (so paid early Oct '20): 8112 nodes, 4760 payouts
for Oct '20: 8770 nodes, 5697 payouts
for Nov '20: 9232 nodes, 5091 payouts
for Dec '20: 9729 nodes, 489 payouts
for Jan '21: 10566 nodes, 208 payouts

Does that mean that less than 4% of the SNOs got paid this month?

My conclusion:
This situation we have here, is here to stay and will only get worse. Yes, after the pandemic the prices will go down a bit, but the long term trend is upwards.
SNOs will have 3 choices:

1. scale up by using multiple IP addresses, stay before the trend. Aim 100+USD monthly payouts at this moment, and prepare for more. Not many are capable of doing that.
2. move to L2, which is not mature yet, and will therefore create new problems. (well, even L1 is not mature yet, but L2 is even newer)
3. get out.

[andrew2.hart]

To be fair, you forgot option 4.

• 4. Do nothing.

[littleskunk]

5. Test zkSync for free in testnet to get a better understanding how it works.

[Josh_Garza]

Since STORJ is just a payment or utility token, why dont you let the SNO to select another non-ERC20 tokens with low transfer fees (limited list of tokens proposed by Storj Labs) to receive payments. At the end of the month, Storj could do a swap to these tokens and distribute it among all the SNOs.

[penfold]

@littleskunk

Test zkSync for free in testnet to get a better understanding how it works.

For the pittance my node will earn for the next few months at least it isn’t worth the effort.

[littleskunk]

@penfold

For the pittance my node will earn for the next few months at least it isn’t worth the effort

Do you speak for yourself or for all SNOs now? I have just added an option to the list. I am not saying you have to choose exactly that option.

[penfold]

@littleskunk

Do you speak for yourself or for all SNOs now? I have just added an option to the list. I am not saying you have to choose exactly that option.

Since I specifically said “my node” I would have thought it would have been obvious I was speaking for myself. However, i do find it interesting that storj is pushing this so hard and yet when asked the majority of respondents on the forum question indicated they didn’t select it as an option they wanted (for themselves).

[littleskunk]

@penfold

However, i do find it interesting that storj is pushing this so hard and yet when asked the majority of respondents on the forum question indicated they didn’t select it as an option they wanted (for themselves).

Take a look at the changelog once more. Do you have the feeling I would push someone into opting in zkSync? Why would I add a big warning then? Why would I explain everyone how to test it for free?

If you want to know what my choise will be for the next payout you can simply ask. I am happy to answer that question any time.

[hb020]

@littleskunk

5. Test zkSync for free in testnet to get a better understanding how it works.

Will do. As it is a sensible thing to do before moving to option 2. But to me it is not option 5, as it is not a final solution in itself.

Option 4 (doing nothing) is probably what most people will do though. For various reasons. Indeed, should have added that.

[littleskunk]

@hb020

Will do. As it is a sensible thing to do before moving to option 2. But to me it is not option 5, as it is not a final solution in itself.

Ok fair

Just let me know if you need any help or testSTORJ token. I am always happy to help.

[PTR]

Hi, an important question.
If my January SNO reward was not received (due to high transaction cost), does that mean that the SNO reward is waiting for me a) in the form of Storj, or b) in the form of USD? I.e., for the a) case, does the conversion to Storj happen at the beginning of February even though the Storj will be sent to me sometime in the future? I really hope this is the case!

Best regards,
Peter