Let's talk about the elephant in the room: The Storj economic model (node operator payout model)

Awesome that they transparently report these numbers!
And they also look way better than what I have expected!
Node subsidies make up only for 0.5M.

At the current rate, they have 2.5y left but that does not mean a lot, because of other expenses and token valuation.

Hello, I read with much interest the discussion here and I thought that someone like me, mostly clueless about the product, but potentially being the user type like other millions out there would be at least interesting to listen to possibly get some hints where to go;

First how I came here; I am a trad fi trader making this hard job for a living since 2008. As a trader what I need since I am European but I live in Asia is a server that I have in USA with OVH, where I run all my app.

For backing my stuff I use Veeam and one key thing about veeam is that It let me to replicate my server in any data center, with different cloud provider, around the world in a reliable and fast fashion , remotely via ISO . Veeam is the best out there, I tried other products but Veeam is by far the best.

I am currently using Veeam connect for my backups which has a peculiarity: It’s reliable AND allow me to use Veeam Agent which actually is a very light app not so complicated like the Veeam main suite. (forgot the name)

Now If We are able to provide a solution very easy (for dummies) that can connect directly to something like Veeam agent using the cloud connect technologies and keeping the price competitive, I don’t see how You can’t reach millions of dummy people that wants reliable and easy solution (provided by Veeam) and competitive pricing by Storj.

In other worlds Storj just need to figure out the bridge to use with Veeam that allow the average illiterate windows user, with a couple of click to make backup in the cloud. FYI, I am currently paying 30$ month for 200 GB. There are probably some fees associated with cloud connect but I would think Storj management could possibly investigate this thing.

The key is to provide through a video an easy to connect solution for all those small satoshi in the world that need to have backup in the cloud . (S3 would work but need the centralized solution with Veeam main suite…)

Blackblaze has something like that but personally I haven’t been able to figure out what I need to do. So probably simplicity is the other key.


I also support these ideeas. Storj team focused from the start to big business clients and ignored the individuals. The individuals are in and out more frequently than businesses and that is good and bad, but the most important factor is the huge number of them. So Storj needs to focus on attracting individuals and small businesses. And the key here is the ease-of-use/dummie mode for all the parts that make you install the software and use it.
I did’t checked Veeam, but on Blackblaze site I saw a very nice, attractive and easy-to-understand shop page with different use case scenarios and a big red “buy now” button for every scenario. On Storj page… no comment.
Storj has a lot of improvement to do for the frontend with small/dummie clients in mind.
Just look at any app store for smartphones. Who buyes the most stuff? Kids and dummies! Don’t overcomplicate things. This is the speed century, nobody whants to get a headach in trying to do somenthing or spend to much time understanding/learning stuff.

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FYI, someone mentioned Storj in the Veeam forum;

and this is what I was suggesting which OVH would do soon:

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After 5 years, project is still living off the token sale reserves.
Check “Net network operations” line for last 5 years (always negative) + service provider cost + salaries. Not sure what could happen if remaining tranches get locked forever.

What happened to the warrant canary?

Yes, there will be an economic model white paper released, likely this month (definitely this quarter) which will outline changes and they’ve promised several times that impactful changes will be discussed with the community prior to implementing anything.


That may deserve a new topic, but I’m afraid the page explains quite clearly what happened… And the whole reason for it existing is that they likely aren’t allowed to publish why it’s no longer there. Unless they correct me on this, I think we can draw some conclusions.


Special note should be taken if these messages ever cease being updated, or are removed from this page.

just noting this from the canary. I will end the offtopic here.

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I think you have to also consider that the plan is to have third party satellites. These will be separate from Storj Labs and will pay SNO’s based on their own criteria.

In that way, if in the unlikely event Storj were unable to maintain operations, SNO’s would still be getting paid from various other Satellite operators.

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I’d love to have options as a node operator, but we can’t exactly bet on a possible eventuality. And at the moment third party satellites can’t really compete with Storj Labs satellites without the benefit of the reserves to burn through.

That said, I’d probably join satellites even if they paid less, as long as it would still be profitable.

Regarding the warrant canary, please refer to JT’s statement here

Pasting the link here to directly answer your question, but its a bit off topic for this thread so if you could please be mindful of keeping topics in their respective threads it will be much easier for everyone, especially future users searching these topics. Thanks!


As I mentioned it earlier, the model is not healthy Longterm business viability of storj

The thing is, you underpay the node operators already, so you can’t cut off someone’s arm who you’ve stolen their legs already. The problem starts at the very beginning, where you do charge way too less for the service you offer and at the same time have a way too high overhead due to your ideology: The network is build of non professional users you can’t trust so you need resiliency by overhead, instead of the more economic, the network is build upon (semi-) professionals that you can rely and trust upon and optimize the overhead.

Considering your plans of third party satellites, that would be effectively cannibalizing your own business right? Unless it is still integrated into your revenue stream.

The number of vetted nodes has almost doubled in the past year and is accelerating. So they currently pay more than enough for 19.3k nodes at 26.3PB of available space. So they dont underpay and have room to cut when they need too. If they underpaid the amount of available storage would be falling.

yes, I guess you don’t mind sharing all the numbers and show us the financial plan covering all the expenses (electricity, cooling and so on).

My nodes are quite profitable but I set out to use second hand hardware from the outset. Used enterprise drives from eBay have several years left in them. Of the eight 6tb drives I bought, only one started failing a few months ago and I replaced it. Two of them came with bad sectors but I ran read write tests across all the drives several times and the bad sector count has remained constant. I only pay attention when the number of bad sectors starts increasing or attribute 187 is non-zero (per back blaze’s drive reports, 187 is one of the tell tale signs a drive is dying).

Using mostly existing hardware, my additional power draw if about 75w. I make about $120 a month currently. That’s about $100 profit, allowing me to buy a 20TB HDD every 4 months if I wanted. Yeah, it’s plenty profitable. Not get rich quick profitable, but more than fair compensation for service provided.

That said, usage is growing faster than supply atm. Lowering payouts is a tricky thing to do. I think there’s room to do it, but they’ll have to be smart about it.

You can do that, that is gambling of course and 12 month is plenty to loose such a drive on, but if the price is low enough that can work out.

except that it is not growing that fast. we have a few test nodes running for more than a year even though we’re not convinced, just to see how good the network actually performs in reality. They made only 90$ in total within that time. So not even remotely profitable and none of the nodes were filled up even near to their capacity. So yeah.


It takes about 2 years to earn back the cost of a 20TB HDD and in the next year, you make enough to buy almost 2 more. At that time it’s also about to fill up. If you can keep running costs down, this is a great deal. The only downside is that it doesn’t scale due to IP filtering. But over the course of a 5 year lifetime (warranty period for the HDD’s I use) it would make about $2750. For an initial cost of $400 and marginal power costs per HDD.

I agree. My monthly income with capacity to spare used to be around $50/mo with a single full 14 TiB drive, now the rate is far slower with three drives bringing in less than $25/month gross. There is little to no profit.