Minimum Threshold for Storage Node Operator Payouts

The held back percentage would need to be close to 100% while the node is growing, I have a node with 6TB of data and only 42$ held back. (it’s always had free space to grow)
If you make the assumption that a node makes 2.5$ a month per TB of data stored, it wouldn’t earn anything for 5 months (100% held back) in order to get to 12$ held back per TB. It’s quite a bit worse than the actual way it’s done.
The calculations aren’t accurate because the node fills up slowly.
Another way of saying things is that a node that gets 500GB of combined ingress (supposing no deletes) would have 6$ held back every month just to compensate for the increase in capacity.
To conclude I think that we are better off leaving things as is and leave the team time to work on some more important stuff (like delegating repairs to the storagenodes), even more so because the held amount is probably waaay less than 12$/TB stored on everyones nodes

I’m not saying it should be changed this way. I’m just brainstorming how real costs and collateral can be matched.

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Hi,

I made more than 30$ in december, and have not been paid yet. I dont understand why, that would mean the fees were more than 7.5$… ?

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Hello, I wanted to come back with the promised update to this thread. As I mentioned on Friday, we needed to have some internal discussions, which continued across this week. I’ll break the results of those talks out into a few bullets below.

– We coordinated between engineering, product, marketing, operations and the community team to look at the situation from as many sides as possible. We also looped in Viktor, who is the product manager for the SNO side of the platform.

  • The main actionable result of our conversation is described here: [L2 Payouts with zkSync].(L2 Payouts with Zksync) zkSync will launch as opt-in, at least initially. It will take about 2 sprints to make the opt-in ready in the dashboard, and we expect to have it avaialble as an option by March (to process February-earned payments.)
    Please read the link to get more information, L2 Payouts with Zksync

  • There is a design draft that we (mostly JT) pulled together over the weekend here:
    DESIGN DRAFT > Layer 2 Support for SNO Payouts
    We are looking for your votes and comments on this direction. The moderators and I all think its a really good approach that will make the experience better for SNOs. Viktor, the SNO product manager is committed to supporting from the dashboard side to help with ease of use.

  • As we were working through the issues the thread got quite long. To address points being brought up, I had organized the feedback into rough “buckets” . For example, specific questions, suggestions for moving forward, general comments….et cetera.

Initially we planned to address each point within the thread, but since we are at >125 posts in the thread, we don’t want the answers to be lost. So - as time allows – the mods will take some of those questions and split them off into separate threads. This should help with readability and organization. Its likely to be labor-intensive, so the spinoff threads will be coming out incrementally.

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The old method with no change the wallet (current realization) payment will be working too after implementation?

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So we have to change our wallet address in this case? and if so, what wallets might applicable to use other than web based ones.

Yes, but we think to make it permanent, if there would be a positive feedback.

no. Only opt-in for zkSync (it uses the same wallet address, the only required thing - the wallet should be in the supported list).

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So aren’t you essentially making SNOs pay for the gas fees?

Right now: Storj pays for the gas fees to transfer funds to our wallet.

Using Zksync: Our payment is sent via L2 to our L2 wallet (much less fees for Storj). However, when SNOs want to transfer the storj out we need to pay gas to convert L2 to L1. Then pay gas again to convert Storj token to Eth.

Isn’t this essentially making SNOs foot the gas bill?

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Yes and no. You can exchange your tokens on the L2. However, as far as I Googled, there is only one DEX exchange on zk-Rollup protocol at the moment. I’m not sure - is it possible to transfer your funds to there…

I just think that Storj may be over reacting to the crypto craz right now and may be jumping towards a solution that may not be viable long term. Once Eth 2.0 contracts become available, the gas fees will fall back down substantially. Are we going to have to switch away from zksync to back to L1? Wouldn’t a better solution right now is for Storj to hold on to the payments and only pay out to SNOs that have crossed a certain threshold?

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Yes, that is basically.

This “solution” doesn’t solve any of the problems we as SNO have in converting this token to dollar/euros in order to pay for electricity/hardware.

We are still forced to hold STORJ to waiting for it to accumulate enough to not loose everything in fees.

Yes, the only solved problem is delivery. And we finally can send tokens more often than once a month.

Well the upside of this is that it is an opt-in. I can not see any reason for SNOs with small storj payment willing to hop on the L2 bandwagon. Unless they don’t know what the implementation of a L2 really means to them… It is already hard for them to convert the Storj to ETH as it is with having to pay gas once. If they have to pay gas twice, they might as well never be able to move out of the L2 wallet.

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That’s true. However, if you followed our guidance, your hardware already paid and you do not expect to cover costs from earnings.
In this case it could be very useful to collect your payout and send it once a quartal to the exchange to convert it.
In additional, you can select a time, when you want to do it, not when the payout is sent.
However, from the same reason you likely would not opt-in for L2, since you basically can just wait when the sum would be sent to do not have a transaction fee to transfer from L2 to L1.
This is more important to newbie to have a trust to the company.

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Yes and I do follow that guidance. My storj has been sitting in my wallet and it is not being converted as the gas fees are too high for that to make it a meaningful conversion.

So it goes back to the implementation of zksync that Storj is planning to implement. It obviously does not benefit SNOs that have small payouts which is the main problem of the gas fee. And there isnt a problem with SNOs that already have a substantial payout per month since the gas fees relative to their substantial payment is not the problem here. So what problem does implementing zksync really solve?

Edit: the only benefit i can think of is SNOs that use the Tardigrade platform. Assuming Tradigrade will accept L2 payments, this means that SNOs would not need to pay the insane gas fees to give the storj tokens back to Storj.

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The trust to the company - the newbie can see an amount immediately after the payout completed (supposedly more often than once a month).
The simple “Storj is always paying” could be not enough for the newbie. Who stick with us more than a one payout could be not impressed though :wink:

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There is a big disclaimer there right? Yes, you can say that newbies will benefit from being able to see their storj tokens in their L2 wallets (held by a zksync contract) in which it builds trust. However, the following should be made clear also.

  1. Implementation would greatly benefit Storj as a company since it greatly reduces the amount of gas fees that Storj as a company needs to pay for small payouts.
  2. At the same time, newbies or SNOs should be informed about what they are about to get themselves into with an additional layer. Yes, L2 to L2 transaction fees are minimal, but now they are responsible for their own L2 to L1 fees.

It doesn’t help that the posts that @jocelyn made has no mention about how this affects SNOs.

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