Minimum Threshold for Storage Node Operator Payouts

[jocelyn]

Previously, we’ve posted about—and made changes around—how we conduct Storage Node Operator payouts based on steadily increasing Ethereum transaction costs. For example, we’ve consolidated payments across Satellites to reduce the number of transactions, thereby lowering overall transaction costs. The current combination of high gas costs and high ETH value has even made consolidated payments cost prohibitive.

We’ve been exploring a solution for a withdrawal-based L2 solution, but we still have some work left to complete in order to implement it. In the past, we’ve discussed (What if Ethereum gas prices stay high?, Update for June payout, Update for August payout) the idea of having a minimum payout to ensure we don’t spend significantly more on Ethereum transaction costs than the actual monetary value we’re transmitting to Node Operators. The community has proposed similar ideas in response to the June payout update.

In light of the most recent increases in both the value of ETH and the transaction costs, we’ve decided to make the following changes to payouts for the month of December and all future payouts. We’re instituting a maximum limit for transaction fees in relation to the Node Operator payout. If the payout falls below this threshold, it will be rolled over to the following month. The transaction fee limit would be 25% of the payout, which would be calculated based on the average transaction fee from the previous 12 hours after starting our payout process. For example, if the average ETH transaction fee is the equivalent of $1.25, we’ll pay out all Storage Node Operators that have earned $5.00 and above.

For wallet addresses that have earned less than the threshold the USD value of an average transaction fee, the earned payout will be included the following month, as long as it meets the minimum threshold at the time payouts are sent. In the example above, all Node Operators that earn less than $5.00 would have their payouts rolled into their payout the following month.

As this is a new process, this new unsent balance is not yet represented in our dashboard, but we are making it a priority to add it.

[will.topping]

All good with me Jocelyn

[TheMightyGreek]

sounds good even with 20 characters !

[deathlessdd]

This will also pervent people from using more then one Eth address as well so thats also good.

[Arkina]

Good idea! I assume the Threshold is based on the Payoutaddress, depending on that some toughs about it in a wider view:

• What happens to Payouts for SNOs which want to stop Hosting a node? Can they request an Payout of the leftover balance?
• What if the SNO switches the Payout address? Are you tracking that and merge the balance to the new ones?

[CutieePie]

Makes sense, although probably going to kill of many new node operators - will take around 4 - 7 months to make $5 on a node

I’m not here for the money, its more about learning what Storj can do, to be fair my lightning node earns allot more ^^

As a newbie, it’s nice to see those small bits of Crypto going into your wallet to confirm you’ve set it up correctly. Appreciate that isn’t a storj issue, but waiting months to find your wallet isn’t correct is fun.

Any chance we could be paid via lightning in future enhancement ^^

[LinuxNet]

@CutieePie

my lightning node earns allot more ^^

Earnings more? I really can’t believe that unless your node only holds a few GB at the moment. With my Lightning node, I “earn” 20 sats a month if things go well. Or of course you lead a large lightning node with many routes.

@CutieePie

Any chance we could be paid via lightning in future enhancement ^^

That would be great

[Vadim]

This is understadeble, have you resereched to move to ETH2.0 when it will be oficially relised, may be early integration is posible?

[CutieePie]

@LinuxNet

few GB at the moment

It only holds a few GB yes, I only allocated 500GB total as that all I have free for play.

@CutieePie

paid via lightning

Was just thinking, another quick fix is to allow SNO operators to withdraw funds below $5 once a month, but incur early payment fee taken from their balance to cover transaction cost - this method used on many pools, and would allow new SNO’s to get confidence and have joy of seeing first 0.01 Storj in wallet.

[kevink]

@jocelyn

all Node Operators that earn less than $5.00 would have their payouts rolled into their payout the following month.

So I guess the unpaid amount is kept in USD and not in the equivalent amount of STORJ at the time of the planned payment.
Personally I would just clarify that in the statement in case anyone is wondering.

(I think it’s probably the best way to keep it in USD, free from speculation as people will always be disappointed that they miss advantageous price changes but would be quite angry about disadvantageous price changes.)

Also I’m wondering if you’re going to send out an email to all SNOs so nobody is wondering about his missing payments since many aren’t (active) on the forum.

[jocelyn]

That is correct. The USD-to-STORJ payout conversion happens at the time of payout, so regardless of what STORJ’s exchange rate is during next payouts, the amount rolled over would be the equivalent of what it was the previous month.

[ColdSpirit]

Sounds Good. With at least 20 characters

[jammerdan]

While I fully understand Storjlabs on this and feel with them, I oppose such changes from a general standpoint as it lays off additional risks onto the SNO which is not fair.

In real life, if I choose a bank with rising fees, I cannot complain to my landlord, that I am unable to pay my rent and pay him some other time.
Storj had chosen Ethereum on their own will so they have to live with the costs.

I believe @Arkina has valid points:

• What if I decide to leave the project?
• What if I want to switch to another payout address (which I did in the past)
• What if Gas prices keep going up?
• What if a node crashes
• Especially for new SNOs I wonder when do they see their first payment? This is not appealing.

While again I fully understand the issue, my view of this matter is a general one: I have done my job for the month, I want to get paid.

I mean just think of it: These cryptocurrencies are highly speculative, unpredictable and volatile assets. If you base a business on that, then it is your own choice.

I have said it in the past and say it again, that instead of trying to adjust the payout process to the circumstances every month they need to decouple the risk of high transaction costs from them. Probably need to find a different blockchain. (Banano has zero fees, Dogecoin has 1 Dogecoin which is $0.01 at current price.).
If I recall correctly, when the project was started the entire reason to make this blockchain based was that even small amounts can be paid efficiently. Well… Here we are again.

Now you can start bashing me.

[gpan]

It’s not just Storjlabs’ cost, it’s your cost too.

After you get paid, you will probably need to transfer the tokens to an exchange, for which you will need to pay a transaction fee as well.

I actually would prefer not to be paid a given month, if the amount is trivial. Having Storj tokens accumulate in an eth address is worse than having an unpaid USD balance accumulating at Storjlabs, as the former exposes me to the volatility of the token. Since the payments are always calculated in USD, and only just converted so that they can be transferred to the SNO, it makes sense to want to convert them back to USD as soon as possible.

With the current eth fees hovering around $4, what good is that payment of say $5 in Storj tokens going to be ?

Edit: spelling

[jammerdan]

I like your point. And it confirms that the token was only chosen to manage a large number of small payments efficiently and cheap. And reality proves, this is not really the case.

But I am free to select any address I want. If I choose to be paid on an exchanges address, I have no costs to transfer the amount to an exchange to convert it into something else. Or am I missing something?

What if ETH keeps rising and the threshold keeps rising too? Does it mean in worst case you’ll never get paid?

@gpan

I actually would prefer not to be paid a given month, if the amount is trivial.

But as I understand the new process, Storjlabs decides for you what amount is trivial and what is not. Maybe I misunderstood. They decide the minimum, they decide the percentage and if ETH keeps rising the amount accumulates on Storjlabs side. No matter if you believe the amount is trivial or not.
What I have learned in my life is that money that you owe to your workers is never trivial under any circumstances and it should not be treated as such nor should they ever get the feeling that their money is trivial to you.

[kevink]

All valid points. They could just make one big transaction with lots of STORJ each month to an exchange and get some other coin that they pay us with that has lower transaction costs?

[Skyblockpro1]

Personally I would consider I I was storj Working with an Exchange that all SNO could register with and they could send SEPA transfers to out banks. If you remember NiceHash A mining pool they later worked with Coinbase so that the whildrawals were fee free and was very easy to covert to usd or what ever currency

[gpan]

@jammerdan

If I choose to be paid on an exchanges address, I have no costs to transfer the amount to an exchange to convert it into something else.

If that works then ok I agree with you, but I’m not sure if it’s possible/supported (some exchanges have a minimum deposit amount and possibly a deposit fee).

@jammerdan

What if ETH keeps rising and the threshold keeps rising too? Does it mean in worst case you’ll never get paid?

ETH’s price doesn’t 100% determine the transaction fee, since that depends on how much a person who wants to make a transaction is willing to pay (like an auction). The fee could still keep rising, but, judging from past behavior [1], it seems unlikely that will keep happening for too long, as the network calms down. And your balance will accumulate, so it will have to keep increasing faster than that. That doesn’t prove you will eventually get paid, so a maximum holding time be added.

@jammerdan

But as I understand the new process, Storjlabs decides for you what amount is trivial and what is not.

That’s a fair point, I totally agree with you. It seems that this matter really depends on the individual, so perhaps they could add a preference to let each SNO decide for themselves.

[1] https://etherscan.io/chart/gasprice

[Skyblockpro1]

Hey Just A question for this months payment, Like December that was paid this month. What was the Gas Price at the time that this happened? Just interested