Move from $ to Storj for payments to Operators in micro increments

Hi, I am keen to place this idea accross to Storj

I would like storj to move away from the USD $ payment to have a central walet that hosts each storj operators token and gets payed in micro increments the same way that our earnings are delt with now…

The change would be a good move for Storj as at this time the USD payment kind of sucks!

the benefit of this is that the Storj operators can benifit from being able to take the gains from what happend today with Coinbase and Srorj token going up some 90%.

Further to this give the storj operator the option to move his or her token out when they feel like it but warn them that additinal costs may occure if you take out small amounts…

Many cyrpto sites use master wallets in this way and it would be a grate leep forward for Storj to get away from USD $… and ofcause storj can follow market rate of the storj token to pay the equivalent in storj instead of USD.

Hope this makes sence
Simon Brownrdge

2 Likes

What about the losses?

I don’t understand what this means.

Ok let me explain the master wallet idea. Sites like crypto.com binance all hold a “master wallet” were regardless of what crypto you hold it is all held in this one waller then issue “sub wallets” to the operators to use in the interim until the operator chooses to move their token out of this wallet.

This will also allow for the operator to choose to move thier coin out when they like at the right time of market moving…

Still pissed cause storj will now pay me half the storj tokens into my external wallet this month as i have no option to move it out… Of ingot paid directly in storj we all would have gained!

Storj please change this so we all get paid directly in storj tokens instead of usd $

It will also probably fix this painful payment system you now have in place.

Simon

1 Like

On the other hand, you probably would have been very happy the other way around.
Besides, there is an option to “move your STORJ out”, it’s called zkSync.

Paying in $ makes it independent from the crypto market fluctuations. If you’d like to speculate on the STORJ coin, you’re free to buy some on exchanges.
StorjLabs pay in USD, that’s the deal we agreed to when starting the SNO journey.

4 Likes

Thanks Pac,

Not quite the awnser i was looking for… kind of a iron hammer that just came down on the discussion from you… mr Pac… you will take what we give you or you can just packup and leave storj bla bla bla…

you cant discount the idea… and maybe just maybe storj has made a mistake with the payout system because hay i have not seen any payments for 3 months now and i am not a big operator so i will expect payouts every few months now…

I do think that Storj needs to entertain the idea of a central wallet system with sub wallets that can handle the storj operators “micro transaction” this will lower the cost of fees as it would not even leave strorj until the operator decides to move it… so in fact

I do think that getting paid in $ benifits storj and not its operaotrs as we have seen over the last couple of days as if the operators had Storj tokens they could choose when to take it out… if you talking about market fluctuatins is kind of BS as this is subject when you pay out the token into my external wallet…

and please dont give me that agreed when you started BS so take it or leave it crap! common be more open minded at the idea of maybe just maybe have a look at what i am saying is a feesable fix for this crap we are all sitting on right now… where some new operators will not be paid for maybe 6-10 months…

if i had a wallet owned in the storj eco system i could then do something with it when i want to and I know that alot of operators would probably not move their storj until they get to 100$ - 200$ as this is the price of expanding this network…

So agaon please dont slam the hammer down with your attatude be open minded about the idea.

Simon

1 Like

Alright sorry if I sounded harsh, that wasn’t the intention. It’s just that this subject keeps coming again and again these days and it usually doesn’t go anywhere because some people don’t agree that zkSync is a good solution to the problem, whereas that’s the one StorjLabs chose to implement, and so they did (and pretty quickly).

So… I’m not sure I’ve much more to say, maybe there are other ways StorjLabs could consider but I don’t know if they’d be ready to invest more in that matter, as it feels to me like now that they chose a way forward to address this payment issue, they have other important things to prioritize in order to try growing their business.

I’m no Storjling though, so I’ll let them reply on this matter.

2 Likes

Any change in the way payment is implemented attracts attention of SEC. You have to run a business and make sure they comply with financial rules. I understand your frustration but this is the hand we have been dealt with and it’s up to the SNOs now. You could either wait for the threshold to be reached or sign up for zKSync.

@Pac is right, this has been discussed in over 1000+ posts so you might not get lot of replies here but the people that do reply only want to help you.

4 Likes

That is exactly the point, it’s not because zkSync has already been implemented as a solution that we can’t improve upon it or find a better solution. The fact that the subjects keeps coming up just accentuate the need from SNO for a better solution. IMO zkSync feels more like a patch than a permanent solution.

I like the idea proposed here, but I don’t like the exchange example. I see it more like a mining pool payment system, but instead of providing shares, we provide storage. The USD value of the storage and bandwidth provided could be converted regularly to its STORJ value, could be every week, day or even hour. The STORJ value only exists at the accounting layer, and is still stored in Storj Labs wallets until SNO decide to withdraw.

Withdrawal could happen automatically at a minimum threshold, SNO could set a higher threshold if they want but Storj Labs would impose a minimum. If SNO want to withdraw below the threshold manually, the transaction fees are deducted from the withdrawn amount.

I understand changing the payment system that way is a lot of job, but I think this would really solve the current payment system, because right now the price fluctuations are frustrating for a lot of SNO. Converting the USD value to Storj more frequently will balance it out.

I don’t see any drawback to this solution, if you do please share your point of view, constructive comment are always appreciated. In the end, I think will all want the best payment system that will benefit everyone. Cheers!

2 Likes

Thanks Mac-was-here for the good replay and yes it is “kind of like a pool” setup but it works for them so why reinvent the wheel.

I still belive that the payment system in Stroj is broken and idea of being payed in USD and not storj token directly i could never understand or really agree with but have to go along with it as I am a operator.

So in brife Storj please pay directly in Storj tokens instead of USD… we are crypto afterall so why confuse the two…

Simon

You are getting paid in Storj tokens. I don’t understand the discussion here.

Are you using zkSync?

How much frequently? Monthly? Daily? When Storj value is low?

1 Like

No, the answer you’re looking for is “Storj Labs shall pay me whenever I want and they shall take on the transaction costs”. You’re not going to get that answer.

@Pac is a community member just like you and me. We don’t represent Storj Labs, we’re helping you out in our free time.

Here’s the thing… we can. Because we’ve been around here long enough to have taken part in all the discussions. We know what has been considered and what the impact of alternatives is. You keep conveniently ignoring the sky high transaction costs that someone would have to pay. Or the fact that what you suggest forces unwanted market risks on people. Your suggested solution is crap.

They have and based on the same reasoning I’ve explained several times now, they decided it was a bad idea.

What you think doesn’t matter. Because what it actually is is Storj Labs taking on market risk instead of SNOs. They don’t have a crystal ball either, so taking on the risk is just taking on the risk. It could go either way.

I don’t think I used this argument yet as I don’t think it’s a very strong one… But since you brought it up and you’re claiming it’s not relevant, why are you posting this now? I wonder what changed?
You were perfectly fine with it when it was to your benefit or neutral. Fine enough to not bother to switch to zkSync payments and get tokens every month. Not worth the trouble right? So… what’s the problem now? What changed? You want in after the fact? Yeah, me too. Wish I bought into bitcoin when it started out. Tough luck buddy. We’ve all been there.

Counter arguments are not attitude. You could try responding to some of the counter arguments instead. How would you solve the transaction costs in your suggestion? How would you solve forcing market risk on SNOs? Storj Labs actually reads these forums a lot. If you can solve the glaring issues with your suggestion, they may actually consider it. But as it is right now, it’s been considered and brought up over and over again, but the glaring issues remain. It’s not going to happen without a solution to those.

You’re exactly right. Except the solution on offer is worse. Feel free to join in on the discussion to fix its problems though. So far your post hasn’t addressed them.

That’s where you’re wrong. Storj is about distributed storage. The tokens are just a means to an end. It’s the way they fixed the problem of having to provide payments to worldwide distributed nodes without having to deal with all different financial systems. Storj is not primarily a crypto play. This isn’t mining.

6 Likes

BrightSilence, I would recommed you step away from these posts as you are making your responce personal and I am not appreciative of it… So I kindly ask you to step away from replying to my posts please.

you have one view and and opinion… you dont think my solution are good however, its tried and tested on other platfourms. This is ideas and suggestions section of the forum and my suggestion has come accross to other people as a good idea I have taken your coments on board and have been reading them however, as you made it personal to now troll my posts as you think my idea is a crap and rubbish idea I now ask you to step away from replying to any more of my posts from now and future.

Thanks
Simon

I am addressing your suggestions and remarks, not you personally. It’s your choice to make it personal and not address the real problems with your suggestion I have brought up.

People deserve respect, ideas do not.

Please don’t take it personally. I respect you as a person and your right to your opinion. But if an idea doesn’t work, I’m perfectly within my rights to let you know why I think it doesn’t work. Other than that I’ll let my post history speak for whether I’m prone to personal attacks. And leave it up to the community managers to make any final judgements. I don’t believe I overstepped, but feel free to flag any of my posts for review.

5 Likes

Its cool BrightSilence, I just wanted to let you know… I am going to be leaving this subject now anyways as I have real life work to get onwith and I need to focus on that.

Take it easy and I did read and digest all.

Thank s
Simon

1 Like

I feel ya on that front.

I do want to have constructive debate though and don’t want to alienate people. So if you have further feedback about how I addressed your comments feel free to send me a private message. I can assure you I have no problem with you, but I realize I can get a little bit carried away with the debate at times. So while I stand by my previous messages, I’m always open to suggestions.

Good luck with your other work and have a nice day!

2 Likes

No, as it does not feel as a solution to me, the only thing it solves is making sure your payment is not held back, but I think the issue is more the frequency at which the conversion from USD to Storj happens.

As mentioned in my post, could be weekly, daily, hourly… The point is to make the conversion as frequent as possible so no one as to worry about price fluctuations anymore. If the conversion only happens in accounting, there is no fee associated to it.

Have you read what I wrote though? How is it worse? I am still proposing a minimal threshold for withdrawal, just like mining pools have, so that Storj Labs don’t have to pay the fees on small amounts.

If the conversion happens in at the accounting level, the is no transaction fees until withdrawal, and a minimal threshold can be enforced. The market risks only exists because the conversion happens only once a month. If the conversions would happen every hour for example, there will be a lot less market risk since it would balance itself on the ups and downs during the month. Instead of saying that Storj Labs is taking the market risk, let’s try and eliminate that risk!

This subject is brought up a lot because the frustration is higher than before, does not mean that all SNO were okay with the payment system before. Of course the price rise is the trigger, but that does not mean we can’t discuss a better solution now. I always though that the payment system was the weakpoint of Storj.

Say we forget what exists now, how would you view the ideal payment system?

So, if the token price is dropping, I would have to exchange it as frequently as possible to avoid losing money?

Maybe I would rather be paid in the USD value once a month, so that if the token price is falling, I could just sell the tokens when I get them (once a month) instead of having to do that every day or multiple times per day (and pay tx fees for that as well)?

Storj promises to pay me $20 for each uploaded TB. I upload 2TB and get $10 - “sorry, the token price was falling for the whole month”

1 Like

No that’s not what I propose, see :

Storj tokens would still stay in Storj Labs wallet until withdrawal. Once the threshold is reached, or when you decide to withdraw manually to your wallet paying the fee, you are free to do whatever you want with it.

You are still being paid the same amount, but instead of calculating it monthly, it would be calculated daily (or whatever frequency), I think it would be beneficial for everyone.
Your example applies more to the current system than what I propose. I’ll try to make a small spreadsheet later tonight to better illustrate this.

Right now, if the token price is falling, it makes sense for me to sell them as soon as I get them to preserve the USD value. So, I have to do that once a month.
If my earnings are converted to STORJ every day, I would have to sell them every day to preserve the value.

Consider this: Token value starts at $1 and drops by 5% every day. My node earns $1 every day.
Day 1: Price=$1, I get 1 token
Day 2: Price=$0.9, I get 1.111 token
Day 3: Price= $0.81, I get 1.234 token.

For three days I got 3.345 tokens. If I sell them at day 3, I’ll get $2.71. I lost $0.29 because the value dropped.

Current system (well, paid every 3 days): Day 3, price=$0.81, I get 3.7 tokens for the three days, sell them immediately and get my $3.

So, to preserve the value, I would have to sell the tokens I get that day during the same day. Of course, that would probably add exchange fees and transfer fees and would make even less sense, but in a world with no fees that’s what I would have to do if my earnings were converted to STORJ every day.

Your example is true, but the opposite where the price rises and you lose money because you can’t convert it is also true. And that is more what we are seeing right now. The point of making it more frequent is balancing those drops and rises.

I have my workday job to take care right now, will work on an example tonight with both scenario to better illustrate my point.