An open letter to the Storj token community: the restructuring, the network, and a proposed path to shared ownership

[littleskunk]

@waxtep21

I’m in a private chat with real SNOs, and they’re, to put it mildly, discouraged by your reasoning.

You can forward a message for me. Please keep it professional. Thats all I am asking for. No payout reduction was annonced but apperently it is already enough to trigger people and start some kind of war that I don’t want to be part of. This is not helpful. My takeway is that these nodes would threaten to leave because they want the payout rate to increase.

It would make much more sense to wait for the calculator I have promised for tomorrow morning and than lets try to look at the data without all the colorful wording that was exchanged today. Don’t get me wrong. You can vent all day. I have no problem with skipping entire posts and just ignore them. It is up to you if you want to be part of the conversation or just vent a bit.

[waxtep21]

@littleskunk

because they want the payout rate to increase

Increases? I think the discussion was about a payout reduction calculator, which is why the reaction was so strong.
P.S. I can’t forward the messages to you; they mostly consist of obscene insults directed at your team I think that would be unprofessional.

[waxtep21]

But i can post this)))) 16 and 94))))) And we are closed club, no open registration)))

[Roxor]

@Andrew

If there’s any payout reduction, it will be the endgame for my 400+ TB of stored data.

@alpharabbit

I can easily take 400+TB. Next one please…

Me too!

It’s worth mentioning again: but there are many SNOs out there willing to adopt mature nodes that would otherwise be shut down. And compensate you for the time it takes to migrate them (better deal than a graceful exit).

Migrations from Europe can take longer: but if that becomes an issue rsync works well. But I’m getting off-topic - message me if you have questions.

[Toyoo]

@littleskunk, if I may… There’s a company to be saved here, and at least right now your time might be better spent on more productive activities than arguing with people who would leave the network anyway. There’s little value in doing the latter, and @arrogantrabbit can fill you in that

[littleskunk]

@Roxor

Me too!

To be honest I can’t wait to see your calculation results tomorrow. I put down my costs into the calculator (sorry you have to wait for it one more night) and I have no idea where I end on the spectrum. That will be fun.

@Toyoo

if I may… There’s a company to be saved here, and at least right now your time might be better spent on more productive activities than arguing with people who would leave the network anyway.

You are right. I just feel a bit guilty that I kind of messed up this thread now. But even that can wait. A more productive conversation is exactly what I am hoping for tomorrow morning. Thanks for the support to everyone that stayed professional in this thread today! I really appreciate that.

[jammerdan]

@littleskunk

Is there a way we can verify that claim? That sounds like a dramatic overreaction to me. What I can see is my own calculations and they end with a surprising high revenue for me. With the latest news I am now asking myself would I be willing to give up some of my payout? Would that help to make storj successful? The answer is yes. I would love to run my nodes for years and I am willing to give back a bit of my payout for that. Ofc if storj manages to hit its growth target and asks the community to scale up I would ask for raise the payout rate. That sounds like a fair deal to me. Help storj now and maybe earn from it in the long run.

Your earnings were also surprisingly high during tests for Vivint. We know how well that turned out for SNOs at the end.
And when I pointed out that Valdi is somehow no longer displayed on the Storj website specifically your response was

@littleskunk

There was a decision to hide it in order to have a better presentation for NAB. Valdi is still part of Storj. We just need more time for a better integration.

Above I have already linked the bold claims about how successful Storj is running their business and that there is a great sales pipeline full of huge potential customers.

Now you are presenting another carrot to the SNOs. But Storjs problem is they have done already everything to erode the trust and faith set in this company.
I mean, how can we verify your claims? How can we prevent that Storj repeats the same mistakes?
I could also claim get rid of your entire marketing and sales department and that will make Storj succesful finally. That such a move will solve all the problems. My verification is the history of unachievements and where Storj is standing today plus the obvious inability to sell the space that is already there provided by the SNOs. And Storj is basically admitting that they will not be able to sell the existing free space even in the future. Because otherwise they could count on higher revenue and higher earnings which could cover the expenses. Obviously the growth option is off the table and we are talking about slashing costs. But Storj is claiming they filed Chapter 11 for debts from the past. So current operation shall be fine and positive, or not? So where is the perspective to grow that?

The bold claims from he past turned out to be not true, at least not materialising as presented. Add the sudden and unexpected acquisition (now we know, right?) Plus zero communications since then plus a terrible back and forth with the recent new pricing structure. If you believe I am venting, no I am not. I am describing the current state: Crypto markets lost trust, customers lost trust, SNOs lost trust and now Chapter 11. And now your coming forward with something like “everything will be better, just accept more payout cuts, trust me”.

Why do you believe Storj will become magically successful from now on when the history has proven the inability of the management to sell only the space that is already there? How shall we trust without verification? How shall anybody including the court judges that are supervising Storj now, have trust in the company and faith in the way they are running their business?

And just as a reminder, there is a TOSA. @Alexey stated them whenever a change of payout method had been suggested to shut these voices down:

@Alexey

You agreed being paid in STORJ tokens

And we mutually agreed with Storj to the payout numbers that are stated in the TOS when we started our nodes.

So before asking for payout cuts for SNOs, Storj should become transparent again and fully disclose what lead to the situation today, why goals were not achieved and why and who is responsible. Then Storj would have to present a verifyable and stringent plan to success and explain in depth why this is supposed to work this time after years of failures. And only then maybe SNOs shall be asked if they might be willing again to accept temporary payout cuts to help the company that has lost all trust and faith from like everybody.

My personal view is that Storj has ducked up anything they could and it will be rather impossible to regain enough trust for substantial new customers to make them store their precious data with Storj. I mean who would store petabytes of data with a company at the verge of bankruptcy, zero communication and the realistic option they could cease business any time without a warning? Add the white label customer who based a business on top of Storj. That is beyond serious.

@littleskunk

Help storj now and maybe earn from it in the long run

The long run is already pretty long and there is still no viable business model in sight.

@littleskunk

No payout reduction was annonced but apperently it is already enough to trigger people and start some kind of war

Because Storj has grown a massive trust issue.

[Alexey]

We are not interested in dying of the public network, it has a better capacity, distribution and speed.
The certification is not finished, that’s true, however, it’s on the list.

[Alexey]

All Storjlings have a badge with the Storj logo. He doesn’t work for Storj; he’s just a regular SNO who actually listened to us and didn’t buy any hardware specifically for Storj.
We don’t recommend setting up hardware specifically for Storj, precisely because it may never pay for itself. Do your own calculations.

[littleskunk]

@jammerdan

Your earnings were also surprisingly high during tests for Vivint. We know how well that turned out for SNOs at the end.

I fixed that. Or maybe I should say hashstore allowed me to fix that and migrated to a more power efficient setup. I am happy to share the details.

@jammerdan

Now you are presenting another carrot to the SNOs. But Storjs problem is they have done already everything to erode the trust and faith set in this company.
I mean, how can we verify your claims? How can we prevent that Storj repeats the same errors?

I understand that. My response is going to be don’t trust it. Let me grap breakfast real quick and than I am going to share my calculator. Fill in the numbers you feel comfortable with. If you need a trust buffer than fill that in.

@jammerdan

I could also claim get rid of your entire marketing and sales department and that will make Storj succesful finally. That such a move will solve all the problems.

Isn’t that what chapter 11 is designed for?

@jammerdan

I mean who would store petabytes of data with a company at the verge of bankruptcy, zero communication and the realistic option they could cease business any time without a warning?

I would respond again with chapter 11. It works both ways. Cut costs but also keep operating the service. And yes we do hand transparent information to the bigger customers that request it.

But beside that if you do expect that this process doesn’t work out the result would be a 100% payout cut anyway… So lets try to stay positiv and assume that there is a positive outcome because otherwise there is no real reason to have this conversation at all.

[jammerdan]

@littleskunk

Isn’t that what chapter 11 is designed for?

Getting rid of the actual marketing and sales would certainly be a positive outcome and a step into the right direction.

@littleskunk

I would respond again with chapter 11. It works both ways.

Yes. But I believe it does not work without trust. Trust in the prosperity of the venture, trust in the claims. Maybe that can be rebuild. My hopes are low. Because I don’t see why any enterprise customer would store their data at the verge of losing them.

@littleskunk

But beside that if you do expect that this process doesn’t work out the result would be a 100% payout cut anyway… So lets try to stay positiv and assume that there is a positive outcome because otherwise there is no real reason to have this conversation at all.

In Germany there is a saying: “Besser ein Ende mit Schrecken als ein Schrecken ohne Ende” (engl.: Better an end with terror than terror without an end.).

At one point in time you gotta face it when it is over.

[jammerdan]

[HGPlays]

I would like to give my point of view here.

Please don’t respond with the old “use only hardware you have” or “you’re not supposed to earn anything.” I don’t do this for free. Never have, never ever will. Some might — but I sure as hell won’t.

I have been a node operator for 6 years. I started with janky setups and weird machines. I’ve never had any actual meaningful downtime. Debugged through the night. Kept my connection alive with 5G broadband for a period. I have seen the shit that comes with hosting. People will comment “it’s set and forget!” — it’s not, at least not for everyone. Things happen in life; locations have to be moved.

My current status is:

I have 445TB used space, and 1.5PB total allocated. That is a lot in this market. It’s a bunch of money sitting in very good hardware. And don’t comment “don’t buy hardware for Storj!” — I did not. I traded hardware for years and accumulated it.

I will just be here to say that if I see a reduction in payments, I will be shutting off all my 143 nodes. I will not bother with a graceful exit. Why should I be graceful, when Storj isn’t being graceful toward me? I don’t think the company is treating me the way I have been treating them.

143 hard drives, servers, RAM. I’m sitting on a lot of inventory here, and I can put that money into other things. Can I make a profit with Storj? Even with reduced payment? Yeah, maybe a bit, sure. But not when I look at the hours spent. And not when I compare it to putting that money into the market in other ventures.

I am writing this with a heavy heart. I have literally bled for this project (don’t put your hands in fans), I have been sweating in my server room, have lifted heavy server equipment, and gotten help from friends to pick up large amounts of hardware (some for selling, some for Storj).

This is a sad day. But all good things must come to an end. If I see missing or reduced payment — this is the end for me.

Money comes and goes, but this hobby stops being fun when I constantly have to deal with Storj’s mistakes (this is my opinion). The money might be used to save up for a house — I sure as hell am not giving it away for pennies to Storj.

Perhabs this will be the last picture of my hard work. I hope not.
Peace out, HG. Node Operator, software engineer, Storj Youtuber and previous supporter.

[littleskunk]

@jammerdan

Yes. But I believe it does not work without trust. Trust in the prosperity of the venture, trust in the claims. Maybe that can be rebuild. My hopes are low. Because I don’t see why any enterprise customer would store their data at the verge of losing them.

I understand that. I have the feelings trust depends on how you look at it.

From a customer side no data has been lost. There have been a few emergencies and we had to restore from trash but at the end no customer data has been lost in all the years.

From a storage node perspective I have been paid on time. There have been some ups and downs over time. A customer that put his data onto the storj select network was an unfortunat ending. But between all this my nodes are running nice and smooth with a decent enough payout. Now the question is can we make it so that this payout stays for years.

From any other perspective that might be left including token holders… Yep I guess I have to agree…

[jammerdan]

@littleskunk

From a customer side no data has been lost. There have been a few emergencies and we had to restore from trash but at the end no customer data has been lost in all the years.

I don’t deny that. But this is not what I am talking about. As written in some previous post, the doubts are not about the tech, they are about the company as centralised risk. Especially between shortly before the acquisition and today.

Serioulsly, if you were a CTO of a company with petabytes of precious data, e.g. the German Football Association DFB: Bundesliga and IMG extend global video archive partnership | DFL Deutsche Fußball Liga, who has petabytes of archives dating back into the 1960s, could you seriously as a responsible manager suggest to put all that data onto Storj where you dont know if the company will even exist in 2027?

My answser is no, you can’t. No serious enterprise will. Maybe short lived data that can be dumped any time. But nothing large, nothing that shall remain. Nothing precious. Storj had struggled convince a sufficient number of customers without the burden of a Chapter 11 procedure. Now with that at the verge of bankruptcy I don’t have the fantasy to imagine where all these customers could come from.

That is my personal opinion of where Storj management has brought us.

[littleskunk]

@jammerdan

Serioulsly, if you were a CTO of a company with petabytes of precious data, e.g. the German Football Association DFB: Bundesliga and IMG extend global video archive partnership | DFL Deutsche Fußball Liga , who has petabytes of archives dating back into the 1960s, could you seriously as a responsible manager suggest to put all that data onto Storj where you dont know if the company will even exist in 2027?

If I would have an account already I would contact storj and ask which informations they can share with me and if there is a chance they can tell me a few weeks in advance what the outcome of the chapter 11 process is going to be. I need a few days maybe weeks to move my data. As long as storj can garantee that I would be able to stay.

If I don’t have an account yet I would simply wait for the outcome. I am not an expect but doesn’t a positive outcome mean the customer is less at danger than lets say a month ago?

[jammerdan]

@HGPlays

Why should I be graceful, when Storj isn’t being graceful toward me? I don’t think the company is treating me the way I have been treating them.

Zero communications since the acquisition and suddenly iti is about trust and faith and grace. Yeah that’s not a one-way street.

@HGPlays

Can I make a profit with Storj? Even with reduced payment?

@HGPlays

This is a sad day. But all good things must come to an end. If I see missing or reduced payment — this is the end for me.

Maybe to add. At the end it is not only about the rate. What is also important that Storj is unable to fill the disks. If there was a e.g. a 10% reduction but therfore a disk gets filled in a year, I mean we could talk. But there are no exabytes of data on Storj. There is only a limited number of Petabytes customers on there. Sales and marketing are unable to sell what is already on the table. So slashing the rates is a real cut and no fun.

@HGPlays

and previous supporter

Good things never last.

@littleskunk

If I don’t have an account yet I would simply wait for the outcome. I am not an expect but doesn’t a positive outcome mean the customer is less at danger than lets say a month ago?

Well… as said, my imagination is not sufficient for that and I am trying hard to imagine a CTO telling his board collegues something like: “Our enterprise data will be moved to a company named Storj who just exited a Chapter 11 procedure. But they promised that they are alright now and learned from it. Let’s trust them and see what will happen with our precious data.”

I wish I was wrong but can you name one company with petabytes of data that you believe they would do such a stunt. Especially now with the chapter 11 history in the books.

[littleskunk]

@jammerdan

I wish I was wrong but can you name one company with petabytes of data that you believe they would do such a stunt. Especially now with the chapter 11 history in the books.

Yes and no. I can tell you there are a few PB customers starting to expand. They technically signed up months ago which doesn’t match your question. And I don’t think I am allowed to name them. You might be able to find some of them by the whitelabel satellite UI. But that would require some reasearch. On the other hand someone in the community found that one big storj select customer real quick last time.

Talking about that one big storj select customer. Still with us, has agreed on a higher pricing and keeps growing.

[nyancodex]

Any business restructuring will be pointless unless you improve your marketing. We’ve discussed this countless times on this forum: you have a great product, but you don’t know how to market it effectively. Get a new marketing team—or at the very least, a strong marketing leader who actually knows how to sell a digital product.

You should seriously consider the feedback that SNOs have repeatedly shared on this forum instead of stubbornly insisting on doing things your own way. If you continue positioning yourselves as an AWS S3 clone, you’re doomed. Don’t try to capture a huge share of the enterprise market from day one. Instead, focus on building a strong user base among individual users and small businesses first.

I’ve said this many times, and so have many others on this forum, but you never seem to listen. Your marketing team is extremely weak. They can’t connect an excellent product with the people who actually need it, and that’s what has held the product back.

If you’re genuinely serious about turning things around, perhaps one thing worth trying is hiring a marketing leader from Asia. Many successful digital products have grown rapidly in Asian markets because they understand how to reach individual users and small businesses, not just enterprise customers.

[snorkel]

WOW! The big solution to save the company is a few thousand dollars from payout cuts to the backbone of the business.
In the line of stupid decisions you made over the years, you want to make one more. At least you are consistent, I give you that. By you I mean Storj CEO and the other decision makers.
I hope you learned something from the past and you don’t make sudden decisions without consulting us, with verry little time to addapt.
You should stop with use what you have non-sense, face the realty, and take into account that this bussiness is relying on dedicated providers with reliable hardware, that invest time and money for long-therm gains, and the occasional on-off operators are harmful and unwanted.
Just take a look at how many nodes join and close on a monthly basis. Those are parasites (the big data centers who proffit from your lack of control). Get rid of these parasites. Try to protect and fill the long standing nodes. Gain trust and respect from the established SNOs. I doubt that you will find a fresh new bunch of comparable operators once we majority leave.
The same goes for customers, who, for whatever reason, chose to trust their data with you despite of so many price changes.
You don’t need a court order to tell you what you need. It’s obvious. You just need people who can make long therm plans, with the approvel of the community (operators and customers) and stick with them.