London hard fork a positive or not?

I saw a lot of comments recently that the London fork for Etherium was a huge positive.
It doesn’t appear to have been, at least in the short term with ERC 20 gas fees skyrocketing again.

Why is this seen as such a good thing for storj?

Well, it is a positive in that the Gas price is far more stable so far, I haven’t seen the normal huge swings at the end of month approaches, but I guess there a few days to go :slight_smile:

I guess the negative for small traders, is the ERC20 gas price is insanely high now hovering above $10 mark - where as before if you timed it right you could get away with $1-3… so London fork has bought stability, at the cost of now much higher Gas fees.

Means storj can HODL the tokens they should be paying operators, due to the ERC20 4 times cost rule :joy:

Still don’t get why other payment options aren’t used - My Lightning node is dirt cheap on transactions ( ~$0.10 ) , and far more supported than ETH on day to day transactions, even supported on my payment card with Sats back… But I know talking about any other payment token is a banned subject, so I won’t talk about it :stuck_out_tongue:

CP

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Well, given current ingress levels it means I am unlikely to see a payment on L1 until at least 14 months after starting operating my current nodes. (and no I am still not planning to use zksync. for me that is a worse option). So, I’m not really sure why storj comments that SNO’s must be profitable - since actually getting a payment into a fiat currency takes an awful long time. I’m due to finish month 8 shortly and am not even half way to getting a payment at current levels and even if the payment for the transfer stayed constant I would wait at least another 6 months from today.

London solved nothing Ethereum is a mess. Have a look at Tezos update to Granada halve the fee.

Well the London fork was more about price stability than lowering it. There were some hopes that it would do both, but that was always quite theoretical and relied on the fact that it would disable the ability for miners to manipulate the price upwards.

So why is it still a positive for Storj? Well that has to do with the predictability of the price. When you are creating automated systems around transactions, like the payout scripts, you want to be able to rely on some kind of price stability. In the case of Storj, that means that when payouts have started, they won’t just encounter massive spikes in transaction fees unexpectedly.

I happen to also be mining ETH and another impact it was supposedly going to have was lower mining rewards. But since the change happens to have coincided with a rise in most crypto values, this led to an increase in transactions, which neatly covered any of that impact and in fact my miners are more profitable after the fork than they were before.

This isn’t really an advantage to them. They’ll have to pay out eventually anyway, so it’s not like they can do anything else with those tokens. And in the mean time they pay higher fees for those they do have to pay out. Higher transaction fees is quite clearly a negative for all parties involved.

So we’re doing this again huh…?
At least there is still a clear consensus what the alternative should be.

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Surely a high stable price is in some ways worse that a price that fluctuates? In that if the price is volatile you have windows where the price is far more reasonable - presuming if you can take advantage of them.

GPU or ASIC? Probably the crackdown on miners in China has had a significant impact on price?

No longer guaranteed since you have to meet the minimum payout standards even for a terminal wallet address now.

Why is this such a big thing for the storj community? I can’t think of any crypto projects without minimum payouts in some form.

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Not a big thing at all but it means the above is not true.

Storj is not a crypto project per se - they just happen to pay in a token. No one “Mines” here.

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Sure, but for every opportunist who is able to get a low price, someone else is paying a premium. The intent was to make it more fair for everyone. Additionally, they want to optimize for programmability which is a lot easier if there is more consistency pricing. It also makes wallets simpler because they can basically just display the current cost, rather than offer a large range of options.
But there was a lot of debate before it was implemented for a reason. It’s not a universally positive thing. It comes with some downsides, but in the end the majority decided the upsides outweighed the downsides and here we are.

2 GPU’s. 3090 + 2080Ti

Because of the time it currently takes to reach that threshold. Storj has a slow start, so you’ll likely be waiting more than half a year for your first payout unless you use zkSync. Luckily once you start getting payouts, they’ll quickly become more frequent. It just takes some time to get there.

And yes @penfold, it’s in theory true that they may not have to pay out some of those amounts, but they’ve always promised they would when the costs drop, which means they have to keep those in reserve anyway. So even if they never pay them out, those tokens are in a reserved pool and can’t be used for anything else. And even if that weren’t the case, those relatively small amounts don’t weigh up against the substantial extra costs for the transactions they do have to make. So it is clearly still better for Storj to have lower fees.

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More close to 14 months currently. As I mentioned , I am at the end of month 8 and not even half way to the current threshold.

But if you have a stable price the price isn’t going to drop that much.

Yes, but in the next 2 months, you’ll likely make more money than in the previous 8. Use the earnings estimator for reference. And of course we are currently at a bit of a peak in costs. Chances are there will be some drops again as well. As long as you have at least 4TB to share, you’ll very likely get paid in less than a year, but almost certainly more than half a year (unless you use zkSync).

It’s more stable in the sense that it smooths out outliers. But if there is sustained dip in transactions, it will definitely still go down. There are also future changes planned for ETH that will substantially lower the costs. Additionally any one of them could switch to zkSync at any time. Bottom line is they need to still reserve those payouts.

Yes, it definitely takes too long to reach that threshold. We still need to get the big projects with a lot of storage requirements. So IMO StorJ should be focusing on acquiring customers, not (for example) implant x new blockchains for payouts.

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I’ve looked at your estimator many times and I am also looking at my own dashboards daily.
I stand by my prediction at current levels. Based on current trends I do not expect 1st payment until around month 14. Of course a small change now could reduce that greatly and it could drop by a couple of months. It wouldn’t take much. But, do I expect a payment this year? No.

I currently have 4TB available across two nodes and don’t have an issue adding further nodes once that space fills. I need to add more drives anyway to the new Proxmox nodes that will be coming up soon… I do have a problem adding a single node of 8TB or larger as i see it as wasting most of the drive life just waiting to be filled.

As I have mentioned may times for myself I want a fiat payment. It is somewhat ironic that storj pays in USD but it is so hard for a smaller SNO to actually convert those tokens to a fiat payment in their own bank accounts economically for small amounts. Please don’t use that z* swear word at me. :wink: A lot of things seemed to be planned for that other way to be paid - yet they haven’t materialised.

Well I won’t if you stop talking about the f* word. One of the two is actually an option, the other is never going to happen. You’ve been told why just as many times as you have brought it up, so I’m not going to repeat it again as it’s a just a waste of time to discuss that again.

If you think the predictions are wrong, please feel free to provide detailed info in the appropriate topic for the earnings estimator. As always, I’m happy to make corrections where needed. As it stands, I have no reason to believe your node would deviate from what I have observed based on my own nodes and other feedback. And the prediction clearly shows that nodes make roughly the same amount in month 9+10 as they made in month 1 through 8. I’m looking forward to your feedback if you think this is wrong.

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Part of the reason why I won’t make the payment is precisely that I have two nodes that are at different ages and thus are at different held back rates. So everything you could say above can be correct (I’m not disagreeing with you here) but my reality for payment is my larger node is younger so whilst the growth will happen at the same rate the threshold held back will still be higher on the larger disk space node.

What exactly are you accusing me of asking for here? I’m not someone who has ever asked Storj to change token. I also said it is ironic storj pays in USD via the token yet to actually get them is not exactly easy. I have to my recollection never asked storj to pay in USD directly. So bite your arse.

Well that explains the difference then. Yeah, having longer held amounts on part of your payout could extent that period for sure.

Maybe I’m conflating your comments with others who kept repeatedly asking for fiat. I thought I had seen you ask before as well, but I could be wrong. It’s hard to keep track. But I recommend you search for other topics where this suggestion has been made. I can assure you it will never happen. And I don’t want to derail this topic by repeating that same conversation again.

Please just remove this part from your message. It isn’t necessary… And I won’t flag it, but chances are others might. I don’t want your message to be hidden for just this outburst as it contains useful discussion that shouldn’t be tainted by such outbursts.

  1. I have said may times I have no particular interest in crypto. So , changing tokens is of zero interest to me.
  2. I have never even asked Storj to pay directly in USD. Please find a post that disproves either 1 or 2.

You accused me of something. I stand by the comment and don’t really care if the post gets hidden or not.

Shame it has to end like this.

And may I just point out that

is factually true if you haven’t asked before… 0 = 0

Have a nice day!

So now you presume to infer what I am asking?
I already advertised I don’t expect a payment in 12 months. I’m still here. My nodes are still running. So what do you presume I am asking for storj to do now? Have i given any actions/recommendations for storj to change anything anywhere in this thread? have I done so in the past - yes. Am I doing so currently - no,.

I’m having a great day actually. Yesterday was my youngest daughter’s 5th birthday. Was a great time and that has carried over to today. In a couple of days from now my older child will attend her first day at school so it should also be a day of celebration for her.