What is best payout option ?
Why choose ETH, Polygon or Zsync ?
thanks
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Polygon option is being deprecated, so should not enter into this discussion
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I am going with zkSync and I hope one day some of the big exchanges will support it.
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node operator since about 5 years here and never understood why i should use zkSync… i have to pay much eth fees to transfer the storj if i understood it correctly… never touched my payout settings and every month i get the storj to my wallet Token Transfer | Etherscan
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To be very honest, I even don’t understand the differences.
Therefore I remained at the default, understanding it was supported by most exchanges.
At times Ethereum fees are very high. When high, it can delay payout if your earnings are below the payout threshold. ZKSync allows you to get paid sooner because fees are much smaller. And Storj has provided a bonus for using it instead of Ethereum as I understand it.
For those that hold their tokens, this is useful because the bonus earns them more tokens, and over time this stacks up and they can make one withdraw and come out ahead.
If you are, instead, just sending your payouts directly to an Exchange address (We don’t recommend this but we know some SNO’s do this to avoid paying gas) then ZKSync would be less appealing.
So, on one hand, get the bonus and hold until it makes financial sense to pay the fee and cash out. Or on the other hand, forgo the bonus and skip the gas, but take the risk that the Exchange won’t vanish with your money.
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I would add - in case of zkSync you will pay the transfer fee to Ethereum L1 address in STORJ tokens, not ETH. So it could be useful for someone who doesn’t have ETH and have problems to buy them.
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zkSync is one of many Etherium scaling solutions. In the forceable future they will be more performant and cheaper – that’s the whole point why they exist.
The way I see it, reasons are at least twofold:
- Lower transaction fees at the time you receive payouts. Yes, Storj pays them, but why force them to pay more when they can pay less? Storj has been even passing savings down in the form of 10% bonus.
- Lower transaction fees that you pay when you have to move the tokens elsewhere. You don’t have to ever move them L1, in fact.
So, in my mind, I have the opposite question – I never understood why I should not use L2 scaling solutions 
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Well I can see that. But I’m especially wary of the fact of 1) losing the STORJ-coins (what exchange is supporting this) and 2) I don’t know a viable way to convert STORJ on Zsync to € (which is my currency).
You can always swap storj coins to USDC or USDT and bridge them to any other network — e.g. polygon.
The right way may be not to :). Even though there are some exchanges that support L2 to fiat, conversion to currency is expensive and unnecessary.
I personally convert storj tokens to Usdt, send them to bitrefill, and buy gift cards for the services I use (Apple iCloud, Amazon, AT&T wireless, even prepaid debit cards, etc). I’m sure there are similar services in EU (Binance?)
This way you are avoiding almost all fees, and L2 fees are negligible - a far cry from L1 gas fees. Another bonus — you avoid KYC hassles.
Here is the recent discussion on the topic with the link to a larger thread: How to enjoy funds from zkSync - #3 by arrogantrabbit
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Since I don’t want to hodl storj token this is what works for me now:
- Receive payout on kraken (no fees)
- Sell storj for bitcoin (0.1-0.3% fees)
- Withdraw to lightning network wallet (no fees)
- Hodl or spend on bitrefill
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But then you are missing out on a 10% bonus, and need to keep track of possibly changing keys, that you don’t own. Fees on L2 are very low, much lower than bonus. Hence, it does not make financial sense to not use zksync.
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Would you mind posting each step one by one and the applicable fees?
Here is what I used and turned out the be the best payout option for me.
- Receive payout on kraken (no fees)
- Convert STORJ to CHF (no fees, tiny spread)
- Withdraw via SWIFT to bank account (1Fr.)
Total costs: 1Fr./month
Risks: Losing a monthly payout due to “not your keys, not your coins” for a very short time frame.
I don’t clearly understand your concept, is it like this?
- Receive payout plus 10%
- Convert to USDT (fees?)
- Send USDT to Bitrefill (fees?)
- Buy gift cards (roughly 1 Fr. fee (1,5Fr. spread, 0,5Fr. bonus), but only usable gift card (food at coop) is currently sold out
- Redeem gift card at the supermarket (missed 0.5Fr or 1% on CC cashback)
Total costs: -(10% monthly payout) + fee? + fee? + 1,5Fr. + labor to redeem the gift card + (1% monthly payout)
Drawback: It is a gift card, not money, not free to spend it anywhere.
Risks: Losing a monthly payout due to “not your keys, not your coins” while sending USDT to Bitrefill. Bitrefill is being sold out of gift cards that I can make use of.
Well then, that’s a full stop right here, nothing else matters: in your specific market this is not a viable approach. BitRefill is first thing I found that works well for US at least, where I live. Maybe there are other services available to you that can transfer, e.g. USDT/C on Polygon, or other L2, to some form of currently you can make use of?
The main idea here is to avoid paying L1 fees. Both for you and storj. That was my main motivation to switch to L2 asap.
- Receive payout on kraken (no fees)
Well, no fees on the surface. Storj paid the fees. It’s in our best interest as storage node operators if storj does not waste money unnecessarily. Paying L1 transaction fees I consider unnecessary waste of money.
This requires having gone through KYC process, which I don’t want to do. This is a big no for me. I don’t need yet another private company know absolutely everything about me.
This is reasonable, but storj has paid way more than that to make it happen. So it’s not as shiny.
I worry less about it and more about needing to be on top of you account to ensure that the keys are still valid by the time payouts come.
This is done as a swap on zksync, and fees are around $0.5-$0.30.
Then I swap USDT on zksync to USDT on Polygon that bit refill can use.). This is done on orbiter.finance, and the fee is $1.50 flat fee.
No fees, you just pay with the balance to buy a gift card. Bitrefill covers transaction costs and gets paid by giftcard vendor.
I’m buying Apple gift cards, to pay for iCloud subscription, so I’m missing out on 3% cash back.
So, to bring everything to relative units, for $100 worth of storj, I end up paying $2 in fees, so, 2%. I “lose” $3 in cash-back, by not paying with a CC, so 5%. Which is covered by zksync bonus, that leaves me with 5% profit on top. And warm and fuzzy feeling that storj did not have to pay silly L1 fees.
This is pretty insignificant, the whole process takes less than a minute, just a bunch of clicks. And you don’t have to do it monthly - you can either hold tokens, or convert to stable coins and hold them instead.
Well, I look at it this way – it’s USDT/C until I need to pay for something. Then I convert it to a gift card for that something, and pay with it. So, I never need to spend it anywhere else. It’s not a drawback in this scenario. The benefit of not dealing with cash – lack of KYC.
This does not happen. You buy a gift card directly from your wallet.
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I don’t care. That is what the 10% bonus is for.
KYC is mostly a US thing as far as I know. I had to google what it even means. Not necessary for Swiss banks.
Why should they change? By the same logic, could I not argue that bitrefill changes the wallet and my transaction gets lost?
So how do they make money? Do they get a spread from the vendor?
They are a private company not your friend 
That is also the reason, why the unused resources is so important. If I would spend money on hardware and look at STORJ as my business partner, they would have to made some kind of contract with me, that guarantees to pay me X amount for providing Y TB of empty storage for Z amount of time. I think nodes are the ones doing STORJ a favor and not the other way round.
But hodling USDT is risky, because USDT is obviously a scam. They claimed to be backed 1:1 by USD dollar in a bank account, then it changed to treasuries and bonds (which is risky on its own, that is what killed SV bank), now they don’t even care anymore and are partly backed by BTC. Maybe that scam can run for another 10 years. Scams can go on for a very long time (Madoff). But your USDT could also be worthless tomorrow.
True, the transfer is almost instant and bitrefill not sending gift cards would be noticed pretty fast.
So for your specific use case, bitrefill is a good option. For most Europe users it seems that kraken and SWIFT transaction is the cheaper and simpler.
This goes back to my old argument I keep repeating like a broken record
International bank transfers are not that expensive. STORJ should offer nodes to get payed in good old FIAT and a receipt to pay taxes.
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This is worldwide. Quick googling brought me here: eKYC in Switzerland - An Overview - Fintech Schweiz Digital Finance News - FintechNewsCH
This happens ocasionally.
Not at all. Your money is in your wallet. When you buy a gift card on bit refill you “check out” with your wallet. What transfers bit refill uses internally is implementation detail.
Yes, as I said above, they get a cut from a gift card vendor. $20 gift card is probably cost them $17 or so.
Ehh…yes, and maybe? But nobody said I cannot donate to a private company I happen to be in a relatively high cost of living area, and the “income” from running a node barely covers prorated cost of electricity for the resources it uses. I don’t consider it a business. I like the concept of the project and for me it’s entertainment, a hobby, a reason to tinker and hang out on forums and discuss system performance optimizations I don’t mind to donate resources (my time and money) to a worthy project. So why should I then not do two clicks to save them transaction fees as well?
You are right, if that was a strictly business transaction, my nodes would have been long as shut down.
I’m aware, and agree. I hold quite a bit of STOJ tokens because it took me about a year to get around figuring out crypto currencies…
No question about it, if storj offered fiat payments it would have been easier for me personally – I would not have to learn about crypto currencies, something I had (still have) zero interest in… But I don’t pretend to understand what’s involved in managing worldwide payments and complying with a myriad’s of tax codes and reporting requirements, so I don’t have an opinion on that. I trust that folks at storj know what they are doing and they picked the best approach for the company going forward. Remember - I’m not a business partner nor a shareholder – just a hobbyist 
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No. Everyone exchange or finance organization has it in Europe too. At least when you try to withdraw your money either to a bank account or to the card.
Maybe only in Asia they do not care, I didn’t check.
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Anybody having problems depositing at Bitrefill from Polygon right now too? All other chains seem to work.
I usually use either Lightning Network (BTC) or USDT via Ethereum, did not have any issues so far.